Answered Prayer-the Solution?

It well may be that readers will think I have hit my head on something and gone overboard whacked. But, for years I have thought about what I am writing about today. In the last post I challenged the Church to be more accountable for what they pray and those who ae suffereing in their congregations without "palming the wealthier ones off onto the "professionals," and telling the less wealthy to "hang on and have faith."

So how are they to do this? The answer must be two-fold:
A change in theology and a change in organizational structure.
Today we will look at one theology that I believe can be incorporated into most church beliefs. Tomorrow we will look at organizational structure.

So here goes the bombshell!

Incorporate the best--I call it the good centrality of--the Word of Faith teaching. Yes, you heard me correctly.
"You mean those nutcases, Hagin, Copeland, and those guys, you might ask?
Yes, those guys--those are the ones I mean.

Despite many problems, some rather large, in their teaching, there are at least four questions they are asking the larger body of Christ that we simply refuse to answer. Well, all of us except one. Hank Hannegraff has honestly answered them wtihout laughing at them or marginalizing them. I don't agree with some of his answers (and I do agree with others), but I do respect him a whole lot for at least attempting to answer the questions the WOF (short for Word of Faith) people present to us.

I believe that there at least 4 items that we MUST look at if we are to blast out of our unanswered prayer and unsolved problems in the personal lives of our congregants. I am not presenting a holiness theology here. In fact, in a few days I am going to answer Michael Spencer's blog from a few days ago on this subject.

So, here goes the four questions that I believe the church must answer, instead of reflecting the questions through either ignoring the WOF guys or laughing at them.

By the way, there are myraids of people who call themselves faith teachers. For our purposes, I am only going to take up the teachings of the late Kenneth Hagin Sr.

Hagin's chief disciple, Kenneth Copeland, has unfortuantely muddied up the waters with his wrong kenosis teaching, his weird tale of what Jesus did for us in hell, and his so-called prosperity teaching which I prefer to call ostentatious teaching since it goes way beyond the bounds of normative Biblical prosperity.

1. Faith--What is faith and how do we get it? How does it affect answered prayer?
The WOF teachers have this funny idea. They really believe the Bible...I mean literally. Sometimes it is too literally and they can get into trouble. But other times, it is refreshing to see how they drag us back into the true meanings. For example, when they read Hebrews 11:1 and 6 they really beleive it. They really believe that faith is being sure of what is hoped for (the Greek word there for hope is a much stronger sense than the English "golly-gee-I-sure-hope-so- que sera sera sense).
Then in Romans 10:17 when it says that faith comes by hearing (a continuous present tense in the Greek) and hearing by the Word of God, they really think that if someone hears a passage in the Bible over and over, faith might just come.

The WOF people do not distinguish between the faith that saves and the faith that keeps. They believe it works the same. Actually, I think they are as about near the Reformation people (the Confessing Evangelicals) as any Protestant today outside the Reformationists themselves. The WOF teaching is covenental and they teach eternal security for the most part, they do not agree with the "lose your salvation if you blink worng" theology and they do what I believe is a pretty good job of teaching the difference betwen justification and sanctification and not blurring the two.

2. Confession/Meiditation--If faith comes by hearing (not by reading, as Jerry Savelle points out), should we have confessions? They say yes although they are not the historical confessions like Heidelberg (my personal favorite by the way) or the Westminster (I don't like the women passages in this document..LOL), etc. They encourage people to find Bible passages that apply to their situation and confess them. They read in Joshua 1:8 and Pslams 1:1-3 about meditating the law. They understand that this might also be applied to the Apostles' teaching in the NT. They found that the Hebrew word for meditate is "to mutter (over and over)." This is the basis of their confessing the Word teaching.

Can this teaching be carried to far and become formulaic? Oh yes it can and has. But well-blanced non-WOF churches can cure that problem.

3. The Atonement-What exactly did Jesus do on the cross? They believe that He obtained our salvation and also other things including healing. They actually believe Matthew 8:17 and take it context. Hagin eventually read T.J McCrossan, a Presbyterian who lived in the early part of the 20th century. He wrote the book, Bodily Healing and the Atonement. This is one of the best books I've read as it presents a fairly scholarly approach to this subject of Healing in the Atonement. I prefer that to the usual folksiness of most WOF teachers.

McCrossan was the Presbyterian examiner in Greek for pastoral candidates in the presbytery of Minneapolis, MN. He also taught Biblical languages in a Bible college in Canada. He thought the Pentecostals were dead wrong and decided to prove it with his own study in Is.53, Matt. 8:17 and I Peter 2:24. To his amazement he found that the Greek and Hebrew words in those passages meant just what they said. So, he became a Pentecostal. Fortunately today, one needn't leave the Presbyterian church. at least not PCUSA, to believe these things. Well, actually, in the PCUSA you can beleive anything...:)

I could tell how a young man who was paralyzed from the neck down was completely healed and walking in 6 months through continuous prayer for him in my PCUSA Presbyterian NON-Charismatic church. But I won't indulge in emotional and personal examples. Well, not today at least:::)

I won't even go into how many years ago in the same church, a little girl lost half her finger in an accident; she decided God was going to restore it; and by golly it grew back, finger nail and all. I'm not making this stuff up. It's amazing what happens when you take certain things in the Bible seriously.

4. Helping the poor- This is embarrasiing for the church but I have never been in any type of church that regularly talked about helping the poor except liberal mainlines and [evangelical] WOF ones. Now if they can only kick out that awful ostentatiousness teaching and keep to God meeting your needs teaching (Phil 4:9) we can be in business. Basically, Hagin didn't teach that as evidenced in his teaching as well as the book, The Midas Touch he wrote a few years ago in which he refutes much of his disciples' terrible "prosperity"teaching.

But when they are at their best on this subject, the WOF people really do encourage people to believe for the money to give to their church, other Christian ministries and also to the poor in their church and without. They believe this can be a good way for the world to see Christ in us. I think they are right. Jerry Savelle especially really helped me with this. He gives example after example of how God brings him to various people he can help and how he helps them.

Well, perhaps the WOF teacher are not so whacked after all....at least in some areas.

But, sadly, in their organizational structure, they are mising the boat by a mile. We'll talk about church structure tomorrow as a good way to help people.

Au revoir for today.

The Two-Tiered System

Yesterday we asked the important question,
"What happens when a large number of church congregational members suddenly find that the private and governmental doctors, psychologists, hospitals and temporary unemployment helps are suddenly snatched away."

In the Old Testament this was known as the arm of Egypt. Time and time again, the Israelites under corrupt kings would have threat of attack and turn to Egypt and their army for help. To "help" Israel understand that they needed to depend on God and Him alone, He would often take away the arm of Egypt. Unfortunately, most of the time the Israelite kings just didn't get it.

Today, the church is depending way too much on the "arm of Egypt."

Actually, there is a two-tiered system working. The top system is reserved for those with good jobs and health insurance. The church very well knows that if they need help, the money and insurance of the congregant will allow them to go to their "Egypt" backup--doctor, psychologist, etc.

In the bottom tier, those in the Western nations who don't have jobs and/or health insurance cannot see the doctor, psychologist, etc. Many of these, if they are basically middle class and above and own homes, will not be even eligible for governmental assistance.
From time to time I post the interesting results of the IWON daily survey. IWON is a popular portal with I suspect millions of viewers each day. How many take the survey is unknown as is the veracity of it in comparison to more accurate surveys and polls. But I suspect it might reflect common experiences and views on various topics. The other day they asked about health insurance. One question was,

Has there been anytime in the past in your adult life that you didn't have health insurance?

50% answered yes.
13% said they have no health insurance at the present time.

Let's say there was a church of 500 people. 13% of that number would be 65. Of course not all would need medical attention or medication at one time. But let's say even 25% do (although with the large number of women in churches who are on antidepressants or seeing psychologists I think the percentage might be higher).
That would be 16 people. I wonder what that church would do with those 16 people.

In Third World nations, telling someone to see the psychologist is ridiculous. First, they cannot afford one, and second, there probably isn't one nearby unless the citizen lives near a very large city. And to tell them to visit a Christian psychologist? No....not going to work. The same goes for doctors...they often live too far away and are too expensive.

So what does the church tell those who cannot for some reason depend on the arm of Egypt?

Most will pray an ineffective prayer and tell the person to "have faith."

In the future, as God takes away the arm of Egypt for the top tier, including the middle classes and especially the large number of Baby Boomers, it will be interesting how the church will handle this when those people come storming in to them for help.

Missionaries report that in the Third World countries, when a convert needs help and there is none, and the church or missionary has prayed but there still is no answer, the person often seeks the help from their former occultic sources (i.e. witch doctors, etc.)

This again shows us how bankrupt our theology is.
If we read the NT and especially the book of Acts, we don't get the idea that new converts had to turn back to their idols for help.

There are two groups of churches: those that have the "well, I believe God heals but not all the time" church (as if God had favorite people he healed..and then thre were those he doesn't); and, those mostly Charismatic/Pentecostal (C/P) churches that believe it and are bragging about how many they are healing but don't really have the numbers to show for it.

Actually there is a third type of church but I fear not many of them exist. They really want to help people and so they are seek the Bible and God as to how to more effectively do this. In other words, they really love and care for their congregants.

In the future, I strongly believe that the first type of church will have to change its theology and look at what Christ did in the Atonement more closely.
For the second group of mostly C/P churches, they will need to get out of their arrogance and face the reality that for what they believe, their rate of success is really dismal.
The Third Wave revival churches(i.e. Toronto, Brownsville, etc) and Word of Faith churches (i.e. Hagin, Copeland, etc.) will especially need to do this. In other words, when the arm of Egypt begins to fail large numbers of their followers, they will need to deal with this fact and ask why their "methods" and "anointings" are not working well.

In fact, I believe many of the Third Wave healers are already trying to deal with this--but in the wrong way. Recent posts from them have indicated that they are trying to adopt a more Word of Faith approach. I believe the reason for this is their realization that large numbers of people simply are not being healed by their great "anointing," and that they now must offer an excuse for it that does not relfect upon them. The W of F teaching will allow them to play the controller blame game. In other words, here is what I foresee in the Third Wave healing.

"We are the great anointed ones and so IF you are not receiving healing it must be your lack of faith."

Someday I am going to post on Healing in the Atonement because outside of Word of Faith churches, it really is not being taught nor understood well.

A final word of caution here: I am not suggesting that people give up doctors, medications and so forth. When and if the church finally has a good success rate, you won't have to do these things. But until then, you must go...IF you can. If you are in the bottom tier, I can only wish you luck and more faith as you will surely need it.

Church--Meet the Future

I have been ranting about the use of antidepressants by Christians. This really is only part of a larger problem. And here is the problem:

The church has gotten in the habit of palming off its members (that is its congregants) to everyone in town...except itself.

If you are sick, they will pray an ineffective prayer but all along understand that you really will get help at the doctor. If the doctor cannot help you, too bad.

If you are depressed, we will pray another ineffective prayer and hope for the best but all along we will really be ready to give you over to the psychologist.

If you lose your job, we will pray again...many times an ineffective prayer. But for real help, see the unemployment office or the Salvation Army.

If an elderly person in the church cannot exist on their limited income, the church will pray, but we all know that it will not help.

Sometimes the church gives someone a $25 market gift certificate and they really think that is all the Bible requires.

James 1:27-This is pure and undefiled religion, to look after (the Greek implies an actual taking care of) the widows and orphans in their distress.

I have news for the church. The small effort they are making just isn't cutting it.

And I have more news for the church. As I have posted before, in 2 years the first Baby Boomers will hit 60 years old. If you think this "ME" generation will simply sit around and accept this pitiful help, think again.

The church has had it really good up to this point with the Baby Boomers. They have been able to take care of themselves healthwise and financially for the most part. But with the uncertainty of the world's future; the financial markets going up and down continually; pensions disappearing; the Social Security funds disappearing....perhaps someone else will need to take care of the Baby Boomers.

When the doctors, psychologists and governments no longer have the answer....the Christian Boomers will turn to their churches. And you better believe they will have found lots of Bible passages about how the church is supposed to take care of its own.

So, Church....are you ready??

The AntiDepressants Series

For my series on antidepressants and especially their use by Christian psychologists , see the following:


Part I

Part II

Part III

Part IV

AntiDepressants---The Truth Just Keeps Coming

Well, in the last two weeks...FINALLY!....there has been more and more in the mainstream media backing up what Dr. Peter R. Breggin told us nine years ago in his book, Talking Back to Prozac.

OK..so here are some of the media reports on these controversial antidepressants.

*From the NY Times, September 18
Dr. John Abramson, teacher at the Harvard Medical School, writes that he applauds some of the recent moves to supervise the drug tests more closely. BUT, he also writes,

"...my experience as a family doctor on the front lines of medicine leads me to believe that these moves won't be enough to curb the influence of the drug companies on our health care." He goes on to say that the drug companies make sure that only favorable trial test reports reach the public and professionals, NOT the negative tests.

Dr. Breggin wrote this 9 years ago. He said that Prozac wasn't being tested on either children or the elderly but that they were being given to these two groups anyway. He also wrote that the drug trials were not long enough; that two to three months of tracking the testers is not enough time. He wrote that former drug company consultants and employees were now working for the very same FDA that approves these drugs, and the NIH, whose recommendations psychologists, psychiatrists and MD's take seriously.

Breggin was so ahead of his time it isn't funny.

Breggin also pointed out, something the public doesn't always realize, that the FDA itself doesn't do this testing. Well who does then? The drug companies. They hire "independent outside labs." But as Dr. Breggin points out, alot of these labs have money or other connections to the very drug companies for whom they are conducting the tests.

Dr. Abranmson continues to say that the older, more mild antidepressants were seen to be as effective as the current ones, Gee...Dr. Breggin said that VERY same thing 9 years ago.

Dr. Abramson continues....."the most disturbing finding was that twice as many depressed adults on the new antidepressants kill themselves as those on placebos.

Again, nine years ago, Dr. Breggin reported findings that showed approximately 7% of those taking antidepressants such as Prozac, either attempted suicide or attempted killing another person, or actually went through with those things. He wrote that if one million people are taking antidepressants, that measn aout 70,000 would either attempt and perhaps carry out suicide, or kill another.

Byt he way, today we have much stronger antidepressants than the older Prozac "generation" drugs. Yikes!

*Here is the Sept. 24 issue of the Los Angeles Times
"House subcommittee says the agency [FDA] held back data on the drugs' [antidepressants] risks to children."

*Also in the same issue--"NIH [National Institutes of Health] Imposes Ban on ALL Outside Payments to Its Employeees."
The issue here is that some NIH employees are accepting payment as consultants for the very drug companies that they supposedly are to remain neutral about in their recommnedations.

By the way, once again, Dr. Breggin also told us all about that in his book.

He also says as I've posted before here, that this nonsense about chemical imbalances in the brain is just that..nonsense for the most part. Psychiatrists are assuming that...but they cannot prove it. Just the other day, in one of the mainstream media I was reading that the majority of psychiatrists understand and accept this...yet they still promote their bio-centered, drug-infested "therapy."

But here is the real tragedy! Christian psychologists blindly partner with these pill-pusher psychiatrists and tell their Christian clients that they have a brain imbalance and they need to take these strong antidepressants the rest of their lives.

Now here is my prophetic word: Sometime down the road, we will hear about lots of people geting all kinds of horrible conditions from cancer to heart problems to liver to kidney problems or whatever. And guess what? Scientists will find that it was the prolonged use of antidepressants that caused it. You can bank on that.

Dr. Breggin in fact asks this question: What will long term use produce (besides suicide-murder that we are already seeing.)?

Today they have finally found out about what is happening to children who take these strong drugs,.

Now, get ready for the findings soon about adults. It is coming..for sure.

I do hope you will get a copy of this great book. I checked mine out from my local library.

This of course leaves us with a BIG problem. What in the world is the church's part in helping depressed ( and other neurotic or even psychotic) people other than shooing them to their local Christian psychologist? In the next few days, I will be writing about just that topic.

For the entire four-part antidepressant series Go here

Politics and the Church

I do recommend highly the series by Pastor Mark D. Roberts on his blog. Go to Mark D. Roberts and scroll down a bit until you see the series under the heading, The Church and Politics in America.

First the Jews---then the Christians

I am reading Michael Evans' book, American Prophecies. Israel is the center of the book as he relates the history of the beginnings of the modern country of Israel as well as the OT prophecies concerning that formation. His main thesis is that those that are against Israel will go down and those who help Israel will be blessed. Thus, his message to the United States is....what path will the USA eventually follow? He points out presidents from Lincoln to the modern day and their stances about Israel.

He also stands against replacement theology as the prime force of anti-Semitism in the western countries. I am out on this one as I tend to favor replacement theology (that is the Church is modern Israel..not the country of Israel). However, there are some items that reformists seem to not be able to answer. The main problem is that the country of Israel is standing over at the Middle East glaring at them. So what do they do with that? It is apparent that the country came together miracuously (you certainly will draw that conclusion after reading Evans' book), so how does it fit in with replacement theology? I have both read and heard many modern reformation writers and theologians on this recently....and they simply are not adequately answering this question. So I wait..........

However, on to my main discourse about Evans' book. This will follow up my last post on what happened to the majority of German Lutheran churches and the smaller Confessing Movement before WWII and the advent of Hitler. Evans writes that historically the pattern seems to be first anti-Semitism comes, and then close behind persecution of the [true] church occurs. By the true church he means, and so do I, the ones that really preach the gospel. That pretty well leaves out Third Wavers, seeker-sensitives and other assorted "let's downplay the cross and the need for non-believers to actually go through some repentence process" types.

Why is it that churches historically always seem to get away form the cross and Christ's atonement? Well, the Bible talks about when it says that Christ is a stumbling block and the cross is an offense. So I guess we shouldn't be so surprised. But somehow, I am always surprised when evangelical churches sell their soul.

The answer?

It might not be so bad to get back to the Bible (especially the NT) for a good theological foundation. And, to summarize what it says, let's do the five solas in our evangelical churches, shall we? So far, only the reformed churches have claimed them....why can't we? It would be wonderful to sit in a Pentecostal or Charismatic church for example and hear the five solas once in a while. In fact, absolutely mind-blowing! Will turning back to the true gospel save us from persecution? It might. But if we are persecuted, at least we will be persecuted for the right reason. But if we don't, our country is going doooooown. That is for certain.

The five solas:
1. sola gratia-by grace alone
*God's grace is extended to us for our salvation--we cannot "chase God" around trying to find salvation nor to keep it.

2. sola fide--by faith alone
*Our works will not save us before we accept Christ NOR afterwards.

3. sola Christus-by Christ alone.
*His atonement (substitute sacrifice for us) on the cross saved us..nothing else.

4. sola Scriptura-we must not add our own theologies to the canon of Scripture.

5. soli dei gloria-to God be the glory alone
*I hate to use R. Warren's mantra...but in this case it's very true--it's not about us..it's about God.

Bonhoeffer

I don't like being lied to. I really don't like it when Christian leaders lie to us. All my life I've heard pastors rave on about Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his martrydom. But first, a little background......

In the 19th century a theologian named Frederich Sheliemacher brought into the essentially evangelical Lutheran churches in Germany the beginnings of liberalism. It's interesting to find that these German theologians and churches started into liberalism the very same way that the seeker sensitive churches are going now. In other words, the wanted to make the gospel "more relevant." What they ended up with was a mushy theology where the Bible really wasn't the inerrant Word of God; Jesus really wasn't born of a virgin; many, if not most of the miracles in the Bible really didn't happen; and so forth. In other words, it was really a kind of deism more than Christianity.
That is precisely where the seeker sensitive-church growth movement will take us---bank on it.

Anyway, back to Germany......with most Lutheran churches in this muddle, it was fairly easy for Hitler (or anyone else for that matter) to "mold" the churches to their agenda--in this case it was called Nazifying the churches. For instance, in place of the Christian flag which all Luthern churches displayed within their churches, they were required to replace it with the Nazi flag. They were also required to replace the Lord's prayer with the Nazi prayer. This prayer began,

Our Fuherer who art the head of Germany...and deteriorated from there on.

There were a few Lutheran churches that were hold-outs. These evangelical churches wrote something called The Declaration of Barmen.

They called their breakaway movement The Confessing Movement and basiclaly called the churches back to their Reformational Biblical foundations. The two leaders of this movement were Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Martin Niemoller. And now for the lie.

All my life I've heard pastors and theologians declare that Bonhoeffer was martyred for his faith. This implies that he was martyred (he actually WAS hung in Hitler's presence, so that is true) for preaching the faith.

NO...that was not why he was killed. He was killed because he was part of a plot to kill his country's leader (in this case of course-Hitler). I read on a website that he was killed for smuggling people out of Germany. No. Let me reiterate. He was killed for participating in a plot to kill Hitler. I am wondering where in the Bible Bonhoeffer got this idea. Where did the Christians assassinate the Roman emporer. Oh....they didn't. Hitler was baaaad.....but the Roman emporers were no fun either. I think that was sad for Bonhoeffer, the great writer who wrote about cheap grace in his book The Cost of Discipleship. Believe me, I am not trying to diss Bonhoeffer...I am just sad that he made such a wrong choice.

Meanwhile, what happened to Martin Niemoller who did not participate in the plot? He was put into two concentration camps but did survive. I am wondering if Bonhoeffer would have survived if he had not been involved in the plot. I bet he would have. Niemoller lived until 1984. We ( and the German churches) needed both of them after the war...too bad Bonhoeffer made the wrong choice. And get this...Niemoller was the one who was instrumental in producing the "Stuttgart Confession of Guilt" after the war. In this document, the [mostly liberal] Protestant churches formally accepted their large part in allowing Hitler's reign and the suffering incurred, especially among the Jews. Unfortunately, the German Lutheran churches didn't learn much as they are almost all liberal again today. Very sad indeedy.

By the way, Niemoller is the one who made this famous declaration in 1945:
"First they came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up becaue I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up becaue I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."


*If you wish to leave comments, I encourage you to do so. You do not need to register as there is a place to Post Anonomously.

Persecution and Nationalism

We are told that in the last days Christians will be persecuted. Well, actually Christians have always been persecuted.....so maybe nothing new. But why are Christians persecuted? Is it always because they preach Jesus? Since so many churches in the USA today are watering the gospel down, I'm not so sure that is why we are being persecuted....if we are that much here at all.

One answer has always been in front of me as I've studied history (my hobby), but although it was staring me in the face, I didn't see it.

Now I do know----after a conversation I had via Internet Messenger with a Finnish Christian chat friend. She was telling me that their news media were saying that the main supporters of President Bush's relection were the (evangelical) Christians. You must understand that in Europe we are seen as an odd lot. People there just cannot figure us out at all. "Why drag 'religion' into politics?" would be their mantra. This is because in almost every Western and Northern European country, true Christianity died a long time ago as a viable force in society. In fact, in France and Sweden, as well as in some other countries, we are seen as cultists. Pastors who stand up for Biblical morality are taken to court (this past week in Sweden for example). Sadly, this looks like the future in which Canada will go also.

In fact a world wide poll was taken recently in which people were asked who they favored as the next president of the United States. Senator Kerry won hands down. According to the world then, most American Christians are just plainly on the wrong side. I am wondering if this will cause these countries to view evangelicals in their own country with suspicion too.

It was that conversation with my friend from Finland that sparked my understanding of the foundations of persecution historically against many groups, not just Christians.

It's a heinous word called nationalism. We saw nationalism at its worst during the days of WWII. Spain, Italy, Japan, Germany.....all were in the throes of nationalism. The USA and Britain on the other hand were in patriotism. Americans tend to confuse nationalism with partriotism. Au contraire. Patriotism is a healthy love for country..defending it against invasion. Nationalism, on the other hand, is a Rambo-like thinking where God is replaced by country. Country is held up as the ideal. In fact, the country is so wonderful, that the leaders, and subsequently the citizens, decide that other countries should get the benefit of their "wonderfulness." And thereby, that is one of the main rationales for invading other separate countries or regions.

Religion tends to bind a country together, making it easier to promote nationalism. Some examples:

*Hindus in India and Muslims in Pakistan. In fact Pakistan was formed through a civil war between Hindus and Muslims in India. To be a non-Hindu in India or a non-Muslim in Pakistan is considered almost un-patriotic.

*Shinto Buddhism in Japan. Have you ever wondered why young Japanese men volunteered to be suicide kamakazee pilots during WWII? Historically in Japan, the Emporer (I capitalized it to emphasize the thinking in that country at that time) was descended from god. Here is what happened according to Japanese history. Notice I didn't say Japanese myth. This stuff was actually taught in history classes in Japan prior to WWII. The chief god decided to marry a human woman. The first Emporer was the child of that pairing. The emporer line then were the descendants of that first emporer. So of course that makes the current emporer "divine." Somehow, Christians would have a very difficult time fitting into this thinking. In fact, Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, would seem very unpatriotic. Well, read that un-nationalistic.

*Hitler had a difficult time with Christianity. So he Nazified it. I will talk about this more tomorrow. Hitler also dragged the German gods of myth into his "story." True Christians didn't fit into Hitler's program. My secret wish is that Jews would hear this.

*In most Arab countries, Islam is the way to go. It is considred almost unpatriotic to be anything else. Christians and Jews need not apply there.

*In Latin America, Catholicism is the religion of choice (or maybe not of choice). Not being Catholic would be ..well...un-Latin American.

Evangelicals are being persecuted in almost all of the countries listed above except Germany...but a mild form is happening there also.

And what is happening here in the good 'ole USA? Well...sadly....we are going that way also. Extreme nationalism is replacing patriotism here in at least some quarters one being the Christian Right. Yes folks...that's right....the Christian Right is the main force pushing us into nationalism.

Unfortunately, it will surely come back to bite them.....badly. In fact, I think that process is already beginning.

Couple that with the watering down of the gospel in so many churches here and you have Trouble with a capital T. With a weak church Biblcially, what happened in Germany could absolutely happen here.....nationalism streaming in without anybody to stand against it. Well, almost anybody. Tomorrow we will see what happened in Germany.

So, tomorrow, let's talk about Hitler's Germany and Bonhoeffer and the BIG lie.

*If you wish to comment....and don't wish to register, you may post anonomously. You also may leve a user name and/or your email/blog/website at the end of your comments if you wish.

Polls

I just love polls. I participate online in the Gallup poll and some others. It is always so fascinating to see what people are thinking and feeling.

A few years ago I read a book devoted to nothing but various polls taken by universities, think tanks and polling groups such as Gallup, Harris, etc.
I remember vividly one question:

What is the one thing both men and women do not like talking about in public?

I'll give you the answer below.*

Here are some others I've seen recently:
(From the Reader's Digest Sept. 2004 issue)
The turnout rate for voters aged 18-24 dropped from 57% in 1972 to 42% in 2000.

59% of the voters who turnout are over 50.

When asked if they could live forever at any given age, women chose age 43 and men chose age 39.

From David Brooks, columnist for the NYTimes:
He divides the world up into spreadsheet people and word proccessing people. In other words, number heads and paragraph heads. He says that spreadsheeters tend to give to Bush and paragraphers to Kerry.

He writes that CEO's are classic spreadsheet people. They gave to Bush 5 times more than Kerry.
On the other hand, professors, who are paragraph people, gave to Kerry 11 to 1.
Actors, who are also paragraph people, although short paragraphers, gave to Kery 18 to 1.

Among authors-36 Kerry to every 1 Bush.
Among journalists...and this certinly is not surprising-93 Kerry to every 1 Bush.

And now for the ultimate zowieeeee! Lirarians=223 Kerry to every 1 Bush. So much for the conservative bun behind the head persona. Laura Bush..you need to get to work with your people.

And now for the numbers people.
Accountants gave twice as much to Bush than to Kerry.
Bankers gave equally to both parties in the 1990's but now are giving more to Bush with the exception of the really BIG banks like Citigroup and B of A.

Lawyers gave 8 to Bush to every 3 to Kerry. Looks as if John Edwards has some work to do among his colleagues too.


Every day I take the IWON (a portal) survey. Here is the one from Sept. 8th:
Do you aprpove or disapprove of the way President Bush is handling:

1. The economy
31% approve
51% disapprove
12% not sure
1% don't care

2.The war on Terorism
52% approve
39% disapprove
8% not sure
Less than 1% don't care

3. The situation in Iraq
40% approve
50% disapprove
10% not sure

4. The environment
33% approve
48% disapprove
18% not sure
1% don't care

And finally, from today's IWON survey:
Do you consider yourself:
1. Atractive?
4% very
46% somewhat
37% not really
10% not at all
1% not sure
1% don't care

2.[physically] fit?
4% very
37% somewhat
37% not really
22% not at all

3. charming?
13% very
52% somewhat
27% not really
6% not at all
1% not sure
1% don't care

And that does the polling for today.....well....except for the answer to the first question about what people don't wish to talk about. The answer is..................................................................................................................................................................
*menopause

More on AntiDepressants

I cannot begin to tell you the impact Breggin's book, Talking Back to Prozac had on me. For years I had been concerned about the almost obssessive pill pushing that not only psychiatrists were getting into, but psychologists too, including Christian ones. I questioned the long term effects of these powerful drugs. Would they numb people so much that they couldn't function? Would they backfire with some and cause suicide (yes that is exactly what is happening with some people who are taking them). Would they cause cancer, heart problems or some other dreaded disease after years and years and even decades of use? That is to still be seen but I bet my bottom dollar they will find out that this happens.

I was reading a column in my local paper a few weeks ago (not the Los Angeles Times but my town's paper). The columnist's daughter is into alternative healing. While I think we need to see the fine line between the true and the occult, the part he wrote about antidepressants was interesting. One rule I have learned in life to find out what really is happening is this: follow the money.
The columnist quoted figures of the pharmaceutical companies outpacing the Fortune 500 companies by 90% in profits. Zowieeeeee!! He says that the relation of the drug companies with the government is such that the companies making these drugs get the money ...honey...but companies pursuing more natural "drugs" are the losers. Or maybe, WE are the losers.

He relates how there are big bucks in giving children antidepressants but not Nature's Herbs. He also goes into long term drug dependency. How about this: here is my prediction: In the future scientists will find that a large percentage of the huge amount of teens on illicit drugs took "prescribed" drugs like Zoloft and Ridalin as children.

Oh.....I guess they are already finding that now. Hmmmmm.

I read in the NY Times an editorial about this very thing. It seems as if everywhere I turn there is validation of the "let's question this a little more" position (the one I take). The NY Times editorial is calling for a federal law mandating registration of all drugs into a public database. In this database, anyone could see the results of clinical trials and if there were problems with the drugs. In other words, these things wouldn't be hidden anymore....and the federal government couldn't cover it up anymore. Right now, some prestigious medical journals are saying they will refuse to publish any drug findings that are not registered. That certainly is a step. But I agree with the Times editorial....let's get this drug buisiness out into the open.

Now getting back to the church. What in the world did the first century church do with depressed people. I'm sure there were scads of them. I mean, if you lived in the Roman Empire, wouldn't you be depressed? Why aren't our Christian psychologists researching this? Hmmmm?

You may read Part I of my thoughts on antidepressants here.

About the Comments section:Blogspot requires registration. Or, you can post anonomously also. If you wish to do that and put a user name and/or email address at the end of your comments feel free to do so. However, you don't need to do that.

A Very Different Way to Coach Football

Many of us, when we open our Sunday newspapers, find a magazine called Parade tucked therein. In the August 29th issue, there is a story about a former football player turned high school coach, Joe Ehrmann. He used to play for the Baltimore Colts in the '70's. Here are his rules to be a better man which he emphasizes with his high school team:

1. Recognize the "three lies of false masculinity." Athletic ability, sexual conquest and economic success are not the best measurements of manhood.

2.Allow yourself to love and be loved. Build and value relationships.

3. Accept responsibility, lead courageously and enact justice on behalf of others. Practice the concepts of empathy, inclusion and intergrity.

4. Learn the inportance of serving others. Base your thoughts and actions on "What can I do for you?"

5. Develop a cause beyond yourself. Try to leave the world a better place because you were here.

You can read the entire article here at the Parade site.
The Most Important Coach

I will be interested if my male readers think Coach Ehrmann has become too "Oprahized."

The MCP Creed

You have just GOT to check out the Married Christian People Creed over at Totem to Temple's blog.

Old People-Part 3

Continuing with the book I am reading, Gray Dawn by Peter G. Peterson.

By 2038 the majority of voters in the USA will be over 65.

Other demographic shifts will be in these areas:
*Real Estate-->Housing starts may very well be down as the number of children born will not exceed the number of elderly. The elderly will not be building new homes but will want to sell theirs and move to retirement communities, assisted living homes or condominiums. Therefore, these, plus nursing homes, will be the real estate of the future.
*National Security-->Who will man our military and how will it be paid for as the elderly will be receiving for the most part less wagesthan and will pay less taxes.
*Education-the elderly historically do not approve school spending.
*Asset Management-->There will be much support for private pension funds as Social Security will be bankrupt and the dwindling number of younger workers will not be able to infuse enough cash into it for the huge swelling number of elderly.
--->An interesting side note-in the September 1st edition of the Los Angeles Times--
"San Diego on Fiscal Brink: A city once known for stewardship has a pension plan of more than 1.15 billion in the red. Add to that the deficit in their health plan and that adds another 1 billion." I have also read in other media about certain companies whose pension plans are either collapsing or on the verge of doing so.

*Health Care-->Do we need to say anything here? It is obvious what the impact on the rising numbers of elderly will have on health care costs, especially as the elderly live longer and longer. Peterson asks a question which he thinks will become very, very pertinent in the coming years-Is everyone entitled to healthcare? If so, how much health care are they entitled to, especially if resources are dwindling and people are living longer?

These areas will also be impacted according to Peterson:
*Retirement lifestyle-a new market
*Food-more geared to the elderly
*Grandparenting-the changing relationship between the generations (are you listening church?)

This month's issue of AARP's Modern Maturity magazine has some interesting tidbits of info. They did an interesting survey with the Roper polling organization among Baby Boomers (ages 42-58)--in other words, the next elderly.
Here is what they found:
*57% approve abortion
*63% believe the federal government has the responsibility to protect the environment.
*72% believe the federal government has a responsibility to educate young people.
*59% believe the federal government has the obligation to provide health care to all citizens.
*56% believe there should be a third party.

The problem with the above is of course: IN THE FUTURE, WHO PAYS FOR ALL OF THIS?

Peterson predicts some generational wars.

For the past 15 years, I have predicted generational wars in the church.
As the Boomers--the Me, me, me generation--become elderly, they will NOT accept being shunted off to an elderly group. They will be their usually demanding active selves wanting to take part in every facet of church life including leadership. I read an article recently in a Christian magazine (the June 2004 issue of Charisma magazine) that challenged the Boomers to give up some power and start mentoring the ones to follow them in the ministry. I do hope that will happen but I am not holding my breath.

For Old People-Part I- go here.

For Old People-Part 2- go here.

Diane

Let's Not Be Fooled

Christian Republican evangelicals are easily fooled. All a candidate has to do is pretend to be "family-friendly" which in evangelical terms means moral.

But unfortunately, it's a big con game. Personally, I don't mind voting for candidates like Arnold Schwartzneggar who favors abortion and homosexual rights. That is, if there is no one else who REALLY has a moral stand on these issues. I understand that non-evangelicals in general will probably not passionate about moral issues.

But it is way beyond time for us to stop participating in the con game, ok?

Here is what I mean:

*A few elections ago, we had a well-known TV commentator- a Jewish pro-family guy was running for the US California Senate seat. A few days before the election it was found that he had a live-in girl friend, attended strip clubs and bought pornographic magazines. He didn't deny it--in fact he admitted it. And do you know that most evangelicals still voted for him? Want to know why? It was because they didn't know these things.....because these evangelicals don't listen to the main stream news and therefore are very uninformed. The Christian media didn't report this I guess. And do you know that this guy STILL is being invited by Christian Right radio hosts to appear on their program? AAUUGH!

*The next guy who ran on the Republican ticket for the Senate from here (CA) announced a little while after the election that he was divorcing his wife because he was really gay. Then later he said, well, no, he was bisexual. Whatever. AAUUGH!

*A few years later we had another Republican family-friendly agenda person running for governor. He was on many Christian raido programs here espousing his family anti-homosexual agenda views. A few days before the election, it was found out that he accepted contributions from the log cabin Republicans (the Republican gay group). And, then, when confronted by these same radio programs, he refused to talk to them. AAUUGHH!

And you want to know something? These clowns ALL lost. So we continually have Democrats, specificallt ultra-liberal Barbara Boxer and semi-liberal Dianne Feinstein because the CA Republican party cannot get their act together. AND, the Republican rank and file will NOT demand better candidates.

*Now, a hugely popular talk radio program out here (not a Christian one...but fairly conservative on some issues, liberal on others..mostly moral ones) have announced what they call "The Political Human Sacrifice." They are sick and tired of Republican congressmen doing nada about illegal immigration out here. So, they decided to send a BIG message to the Republican party by urging defeat of one of 5 So. Californai congressional candidates, all incumbents and fairly safe in their districts. They don't bother with the Democrats since they already understand that they won't do anything about the immigration problem. They invited the 5 to appear for one hour each on their program to be "grilled," er..questioned. One didn't show. The one who didn't show, who by the way is an ultra-conservative , has had his Republican congessional seat for 24 years. The hosts found out he had a bowling and apple martini party during the Republican convention compelete with semi-nude girls hanging from ropes. AAUUGGHH!

*Meanwhile, Dick Cheney, finally had to reconcile his politics with his feelings toward his lesbian daughter. So now, according to him, it is a state problem, not a federal problem. Well, I happen to agree about the federal government legislating morals, and althogh I am not a huge fan of gayness, my postion has nothing to do with pleasing the gay lobby. AAAUUGHH!

How did we allow these hypocrits to become our leaders? Do we perhaps need a third "Christian-like" party? Or should we finally admit that we are voting for hypocrits and also admit that we understand this. I think that would be very honest, don't you?

Puhleeeese...someone....get us a good candidate...please.....?