Christian Carnival's A-coming

Guess who's hosting the Christian Carnival on Wednesday?

Me!...:)

So, if you have a Christian blog (includes Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians), and would like to submit one of your posts from the last week, just email the following to: ChristianCarnival@gmail.com.

Include:
*Your Blog Name
*Your Blog URL
*Your Post Name
*Your Post URL
*A short Description of your post.

Jobs

I got into a discussion with a gentleman today at church about jobs. He thinks that globalization has really created wonderful jobs. Oh? Well, perhaps if you are in a certain business in the blue states like where he and I are (we live in the greater Los Angeles area), or even a few red state areas. But from what I am reading, we have rust belt ghost towns, farm belt ghost towns and so forth. I wonder why. Perhaps what I received in my email might explain it.

"Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN
JAPAN) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved
with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE
IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN
KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN
INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he
could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio
(MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search
for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and
fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE
IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his
TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying
job in.AMERICA....."

I rest my case.

As Countenance Sharpens Countenance

As iron sharpeneth iron,
so does a man sharpeneth
the countenance of his friend.
Proverbs 27:17

I resisted God for months avoiding the well-known Pentecostal church to which He was drawing me. I finally gave in--sort of---I went to their Christmas program to "check it out." It seemed tame enough so I bravely attended a service. I was put at ease when the pastor announced to visitors that no one rolls down aisles or swings from chandeliers in his church. He said he wants people to feel free in the Spirit but be orderly. Well, that clinched it for me--this was going to be my church as that pastor was superior, both as a teacher and pastor.

The next event for me there was to check out their singles group. Well, the first time I went I practically freaked out and vowed that the singles' group wasn't where I was going to be in that church. You see I was raised in an orderly, fashionable upper-middle class community where 90% of the high grads went on to college, and most to four year ones. After college the single groups I was in were full of mostly college grads like myself. Many were seminary students, quite theologically knowledgeable (and the guys I dated).

But at that pentecostal church, in the singles' group there, out of about 75 singles, there only were three of us who were college grads. Hey, if the rest were high school grads who had normal lives and jobs...no prob. But these people were off drugs, some had been gay, a few had been in jail. Certainly not my "type" of people.

Then God spoke to me. In pentecostal land this doesn't mean one actually hears a voice. It means that one gets an impression that they learn over a period of time through testing (hopefully) that it's God speaking to them. Here is what God said to me,
"Oh these are going to be your friends."
"Uh...no...I don't think so God," I replied.
"Oh, yes." countered God.
"Uh no." I countered.

Anyway after this dialogue went on awhile, I gave in as usual and glumly went to the singles' group.

Fast forward 5 years. I am a bridesmaid in my roommate's wedding. She was one of the people in the singles' group. All of my friends are there. They are also in the group; the ones off of drugs and other stuff.

Fast forward 15 years. My friends and I still meet at Christmas time at my roomate and her husband's house for a reunion. Everyone says they are there because they consider the people who come special friends.

What happened? God took a rag tag bunch and 3 college grads and mashed them together. I helped many get their act together; and they helped me "chill" from my uptightness.

It's sad when I read and hear about churches that have nothing but the same age and same type of people. I have a secret. My secret is that I know these people will never grow fully in their Christian walk.

Because you see........
for as iron sharpens iron; different people sharpen each other.

Scary Stats

At Doug Perry's website he has what he calls scary stats. I've presented some of Perry's writings before here. He mainly points out the material excesses of the Christian church in the west compared to the poverty in Third World countries. Recently he wrote an Apology to the World in which he apologizes to the world for the excesses of Christianity in the west,and in America especially.

So now here are his scary stats. He gets them from World Christian Trends by David Barrett and Todd Johnson; William Carey Library.

*95% of all church budgets in the U.S.A. are spent on our own comforts and programs.
Contrast that to 0.01% spent on evangelism to the unreached.

*Estimates say that the Christian church loses $5,000,000 (yes that's 5 million) PER DAY to embezzlement by trusted leaders.

*We can help a Brother or Sister start a business in India with a loan of as little of $25.

*More than 90% of all Christian materials are in English, but only 8% of the world speaks English.

*Percent of Christian resources in countries that are at already more than 60% Christian-99.9%
Percent of resources spent in countries where less than half of the people have EVER heard of Jesus-0.01%

*It is estimated that Christians worldwide spend $8 BILLION PER YEAR going to the more than 500 conferences to TALK about missions.
That is TWICE the total spent DOING missions.

*Costs of ministry per baptisms per year:
In India-$9803 per year.
In the USA-1,550,000 per year.

*USA Christians control TRILLIONS in assets while at any given time 200 MILLION Brothers and Sisters live in the worst kind of poverty on the very edge of starvation.

*More than 70% of Christians now live in countries where they are experiencing some type of persecution.

Perry's solution is to stop giving money to the church and begin to give to trusted missions organizations. I am in agreement partially. I think many people have wised up and are giving part of their offerings to their church and the other part to independent missions organizations.

The problem here isn't necessarily that most pastors get up each day and declare to themselves, "I am NOT going to help the poor!"
On the contrary, I believe most want to help. Of course there are the exceptions--the selfish and greedy. But the demands, and especially the financial demands of ministry overwhelm even those who want to help. I believe that better organizational structure as well as perhaps a review of what they did in the early church to handle this would be of great help. Part of that organizational structure would be to establish a REAL relationship with a church or churches; as well as individual Christians in a poorer country. The BIG problem here in the west IMO for the average congregant is lack of knowledge about, and relationship with, WHO these people are and where they live.

A church I attended IMO was a good example of what we should be doing. They had scads of different Sunday School classes. These classes were heavily invested in missionaries from their church. When the missionary was on furlough back in the USA, the SS class took care of them, providing housing, transportation, funds, etc. Sunday School classes and small groups could go even farther and establish relationships with those the missionaries introduce them to in the far away country. This can easily be done with VCR's and digital photos.

The big problem I have with many missions organizations is they are too independent and have poor oversight. There were never any "missions organizations" in the NT times. The church did all of this. And I certainly can understand Perry's frustration at the church here. However, I disagree that at this time we pull ALL of our money out of the church.

BUT, all of us need to be aware of WHERE this money is going. This is a sad fact of church life. Most churches do not give out yearly statements to their congregations. I have only been in one chruch that did this. Oh by the way, it ws the church I just described where the SS classes take care of the missionaries. I believe we need to INSIST that this yearly statement be given to the members. Most states require the congregation to vote at least once a year for elders (the equivalent of a Board of Directors) to retain non-profit status. We must vote for those elders who will be diligent in helping the persecuted and poor Christians in other countries. We MUST listen more closely to our missionaries and their reports, rather than considering "Missions Sunday" to be a yawner.

AND we must NOT succumb to this abberrant Third Wave teaching that the pastor-prophet-apostle controls your church and you have no say.
Let us get back to the true Biblical presbtyr model.

The Two Evangelists

I received an interesting email a while back from the ANZAC (Andrew Strom's) list. It compared two evangelists ministering in America--one, a well-known televangelist living today, and the other one living in the 18th century.

The current evangelist
Before he agrees to speak at a certain venue he requires,
*A limousine to pick him up at the airport
*Given $1000 in spending money
*Be guaranteed at least $10,000 in offerings
Furthermore,
*This televangelist lives in a multi-million dollar mansion
*Wears expensive tailor-made suits
*His writings and speaking engagements have made him millions of dollars

The 18th century evangelist
*He left his home in England with almost nothing to come to a new country that had almost no roads, no decent housing, few hotels and restaurants, poor sanitation and drinking water, few doctors and almost no law enforcement. No penthouse hotel rooms and gourmet food.
* He traveled through dangerous territory where settlers were at war with the Indians nearby. No first class airplane.
*He purchased a horse on which he traveled for 40 years. No limo.
*He made $60 a year, much of which he used to help others and send to his parents back in England to help them. No million dollars a year.
*He wore hand-me-down clothes. No tailor-made suits or Gucci shoes or Roledex watches.
*He set no fee for his ministry. No books to hawk or a set fee for speaking.
*His "hotel" at times was a dirty rat-infested cabin in the woods.
*At times he ahd to travel in the rain and encountered almost impassable roads. These roads were full of dangerous thieves and dangerous animals.
*At times he was racked with pain or illness but he traveled on. He often gave his last medications to those who were in need of them.
*He owned no mansion, no land and no bank account.
*He was a Methodist circuit rider evangelist, who when he first came to America, found few Methodists. At the end of his ministry there were over 200,000 Methodists and 8,000 ministers.
Among his converts were state governors, the poor, attorneys, physicians, housewives, Indians, merchants, and so forth.

I wonder how many souls the current televangelist has saved?

Hmmmmmmm..................................

Terri Schiavo

Wittenberg Gate is hosting a Terri Schiavo Carnival tomorrow, Sunday (United States time). At first I wasn't going to blog about this because I've read so many blogs that say it much better than I ever could. But then when I read Catez's entry at her blog, Allthings2all, I became inpsired. She talks about what happened to the Jews in Germany under Hitler. So, after reading her post, I felt inspired to contribute my little bit and expand on what she wrote. I have studied Hitler, the Third Reich and the Holocaust off and on for about 45 years now and so am fairly well acquainted with the Nazi extermination program.
Besides killing millions of Jews, the Nazis also had an extermination program for those who were born deformed and/or retarded. Oops! I had better use the the new politically correct term---developmentally and/or physically disabled. Anyway, they sold it to the public as a kind gesture. After all, these poor ones would never have a good life in the Nazi leaders' opinion. In addition, Germany was in financial straits and basically the government felt it could no longer support these people.

Move forward 60 years to Gronnigen, Netherlands. I had written in a previous post here about the university medical center in that town deciding to euthanize babies who are born without much hope. In other words, those who are in the same straits as those who were deemed "unfit" in the Third Reich--the severly disabled.

Here is the BIG prob. Once you start down that slippery slope, where does it stop? Hitler and his cohorts started with the the disabled and then moved on to able body people (Jews, homosexuals, some evangelical and Catholic leaders, gyspies, communists, etc.) with their "final solution." I'm not sure here in the west we really want to go there, do we?

Do check out Wittenberg Gate's Terri Schiavo Carnival on Sunday, ok?

Self-Esteem Bust-Part 2

Yesterday we reported an article from USAToday about what has happened to the "self-esteem" generation. In that post, Part 1, we saw how the generations born in the late 1970's and throughout the 1980's are having mucho problemos in college and in the workplace. It seems they get their feelings hurt very easily if criticised by college professors and workplace managers. Many also feel they are entitled to great jobs right away.

I've seen this coming for a long time. And, I've also seen the implications for the church for a long time.

Picture a BIG pot of stew. Here is what's in the pot:
*a false self-esteem not built upon honest hard work, but on "participation" and effort, no matter how little.
*Little or no discipline because "we don't wish to injure the child's self-esteem."
*A self-centeredness rising from the parents, teachers and the marketing world creating the world all around the YOUTH.
*An extreme child centered parenting and educational system as a back lash to the extreme parent-adult centered system of long ago ("children are seen not heard.")

And now we have brought this BIG pot of stew into our churches and Christian schools. The children know they hold all the cards. They know they can blackmail the adults.
All they have to do is threaten to not come to Sunday School; or, pull out of the Christian school, and the adults go beserko. After tearing their hair out as to the loss of money if this should happen (yes, always follow the money trail to see what really is often happening in churches and Christian schools), they do anything, and I mean anything to placate these spoiled self-centerd children.

When was the last time you saw discipline in a Sunday School class, except for a very mild "Now Johnny, we want to listen, don't we," said with a false smile on the face? NO, actually Johnny really doesn't wish to listen. In fact Johnny might not even want to be there and will probably drop out in his teens because his parents will allow it. After all, we want to give our Johnny his "space."

Last night on TBN there was actually a two good guests. One was George Barna, the president of the Barna Co., our very own Christian pollster. He reported that 51% of Christians have a secular world view, not a Christian world view.

Why?

Well, perhaps it's because the largest generation right now (and also in US history) are the ME, ME Babyboomers(aged 42-58). Next age group down are their little brothers and sisters, the Baby Busters(aged 30-42). It was the youngest of this group that got the self-esteem business. Next down is Generation X(aged 18-29), the baby boomers spawn, some of whom also received the self-esteem propaganda. The youngest age level are the ones who are children and younger teens now , called by many the Millenium generation.

The two smallest generations (and the most self-sacrificing-other centered) are the WWII(age 70 and over) people who are fast dying, thus depleting that generation; and the smallest generation, called the Gap or Silent(aged 59-69) generation, the ones between the Baby Boomers and the WWII'ers.

I don't wish to sound negative, but most of our church and ministry leaders in the next 5-10 years will be the Boomers, the Busters, and perhaps a few Generation X'ers.

How does this affect theology? Perhaps we can now understand why the seeker-sensitive movement is so popular in these generations.

When confronted, they could blame their gurus, teachers and parents for this predicament. Or, they could just own up, repent and change. Should we go back to the extreme adult-centered system then? No. There can be a middle and balanced way. That really is the church's only hope IMO.

If you enjoyed this post, you might also wish to read another Post I wrote on this subject last summer.

Self-Esteem Bust-Part 1

USAToday reports that the self-esteem movement, during the late 1970's and into the '90's has created havok among the youth who are now young adults.
The paper reports that
kids born in the '70's and '80's are now coming of age. The colorful ribons and shining trophies they earned just for participating [i.e. in sports, academic competitions, etc.] made them feel special. But now, in college and the workplace, observers are watching them crumble a bit at the first blush of criticism.

Deborah Stipek, the dean of education at Stanford University, keeps a box of kleenex close by because,
I often get students in grad school getting doctorates who made straight A's all their lives, and the first time they get tough feedback, the kind you need to develop skills, they haven't dealt with it before.
Hence the kleenex for the tears that inevitably follow.

The USAToday report says many schools overlooked spelling and grammatical errors bcause they believed any criticism or correction would discourage students from freely writing.

One 22-year old student at New York Unviersity says her first semester was brutal. Why?
I had always been in honors [classes] in high school. The [university] writing teacher said "I don't think that is a good place for you."
The 22-year old started to cry right there and then. She reports that she had never been told anything like that before.

At San Diego State University in California, one professor says that with many students, when she corrects their writing, they reply, "Well, that's your opinion." The professor reports that,
This is infuriating. Bad grammar and spelling and sentences being wrong is not my opinion, it's just bad writing.

College counselors report that when some students receive any type of criticism, they are now seeking counseling.

The self-esteem movement also has taken its toll in the workplace.
Andrea Sobel, director of recruiting for an entertainment firm, say managers are talking about how this new generation feels an entitlement.
They'll come right out of college and don't udnerstand why they're not getting promoted in three months.

Does this have implications for the church? Let's discuss that tomorrow.

Around Blogtown-1

*There seems to be a lot of controversy recently in blogland about blogrolls. To the uninitiated, blogrolls are lists of blogs that follow the theme of the blogroll. Many are general for any Christian blogger, but some are getting more specific, like for those Christian bloggers who are from Mars, part their hair in the middle and drive Yugos.
Seriously, blogrolls give the blog name, the title of the day's post and the first sentence or two of the blog. This is a good way to see what blogs might be of interest to you.

--->There is now a blogroll for Christian women bloggers. Hooray! We need more Christian women bloggers. I find blogland to be very male (and young men at that) dominated.
Please check the woman blogroll out at Women4God Blogs.

Now if they only start a blogroll for us old....ooops...I mean senior citizen....Christian blogger folks......:)

*Adrian Warnock has a link on his blog to 9Marks . You will find at 9Marks a wonderful number of pages espousing the advantages of expositional preaching over topical, anecdotal, biographical and textual. He doesn't believe it is an either/or situation but that expositional should prevail. And IMO that is a very balanced and correct viewpoint.

*For the simple gospel...that is hearing the gospel in ten simple steps that even children can understand...check out this from Adrian's wife for her Sunday School class....
The Simple Gospel in Ten points .

*My grandmother grew up in northern Holland (it was called Holland in those days). Her town was very near Gronigen so it was with dismay that I read a month ago that the university in that town is now on the leading edge of euthanasia. It seems that they have gotten past the people who want it, to children born so deformed that the university meds have decided that they get to decide who lives and dies. Yipee....:(

This brings me to Dory's excellent posts about Terri Schiavo, the comotose woman in Florida. You can read them at
Wittenberg Gate.

*You've got to check out Michael Spencer at Internet Monk. He has been blogging up a storm lately. Watching Joel Osteen really got Mike all riled up. But that's when he's at his best......all riled up!

*Tim Challies has a great blog. Do make time to read it at Challies.

And that ends our blogtown visit for today.

Reformed & Charismatic Blogs-3

Adrian Warnock has begun a blogroll for those of us that are Charismatic/Pentecostal and also follow the Reformation theology, pretty much. If you're interested in being a part of this, Adrian would like you to post on your blog how you came to be Reformed and Charismatic. Then email me the URL. My email link is on the right sidebar. The reason you are emailing me is he has asked me to run it.

And that brings me to my Presbyterian (PCUSA) service today. We went through the 40 Days of Purpose last fall like umpteen hundreds of other churches but since then my church just has not done a good job of "following the program." What happened today would make the seeker sensitives weep and gnash their teeth.

First of all, we sang a hymn. Auugh! A Hymn???
Then if that wasn't bad enough, we recited together the very long answer to Question 92 of the Heidelberg Confession (which were the Ten Commandments).
A Confession? Auuugh!
Then we sang praise songs. That would make the seeker leaders happy. After that a nice illustrated children's sermon and then a really neato illustrated talk before the offering about how if we give to God abundantly it will be given back to us pressed down and overflowing. The guy put some Dorritos in a measuring cup and pressed down hard. You could hear the Dorritos go "Crunch." Then he piled some more on and pressed down again. "Cruuuuuuuunchhhh." Now that's more like it....the seeker way that is. But then a horrendous event occurred.
My pastor came to give the sermon. .

Here was his outline:
LAW AND GOSPEL
What is the law's purpose?
1. To restrain evil.
2. To reveal sin for what it truly is
3. To drive us to Christ
4. A guide for life.

And then what he said was music to my ears. He stated that some churches teach that faith PLUS obedience = justification. Then he said that is NOT right. Amen to that pastor.

The Promise
Gal. 3:17-The law does not invalidate the covenant previously established by God (through Christ).

Rom. 8:1-4
So no there is no condemnation for those who belong to Jesus Christ. The power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you thorugh Christ from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent His own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin's control over us by giving His Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (NLT).

I wonder who will be the one to tell the Saddleback people that my church isn't quite with the program and might need some nore "help."

Reformed & Charismatic Blogs-Part 2

Yesterday I wrote about my immediate family's spiritual history; being Reformed on all sides, both paternal and maternal.
Unfortunately, at the turn of the 20th century, German theological liberalism swept through the evangelical churches. I think it surprises most people when they learn that the liberal mainline churches of today were the conservative evangelical churches of the 19th century: the Lutherans, the Episcopalians, the Presbyterians, and so forth.

My grandparents and my parents too were casualties of this satanic attack on their church's theology. So when I grew up in the Presbyterian church, mine was much like most in upper middle class areas--thoroughly liberal. In other words, I never heard the gospel. When I grew up there was no TBN, or the term "evangelical" in the news. There was no reason to ask about it either since these concepts were never talked about in the world of Southern California with the exception of small fundamentalist churches in working class areas. So, I never heard the gospel until I was in college. If I had heard it at about 8 or 9, there is no doubt in my mind I would have accepted Christ at that time. This is why it's so imperative to me that the church follows Romans 10 in telling people the whole gospel and not just a watered down version of it. People cannot come to Jesus if they don't know they should, or understand why they should.

In my almost 42 years of being a Christian, I look back at four major people who influenced where my theology is now.

Here is an interesting question for you:

If you put the teachings of Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ; together with the teachings of Jack Hayford, the foundeing pastor of the Church on the Way (The First Foursquare Church of Van Nuys, CA); together with the teachings of Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin, Word of Faith people extraordinaire; along with the teachings of Reformationalist Michael Horton; what do you think you would get?

Some of you I imagine would answer, a lunatic.
These four are as far apart theologically as one can get I suppose, but one of my strengths/skills is eclecticism. In other words, I like to take the best information in systems of knowledge in whatever the subject may be and put those points together in a neat package. And, I have actually been able to do this with the these four people's theology.

And now when you are finished either shaking your head or laughing hysterically, I will give you a thumbnail history.

Bright
1. After I received Christ, Campus Crusade found me. They had a big influence on my life because thank goodness Bill Bright was a Presbyterian and didn't teach all that holiness nonsense that almost every other evangelical church was dishing out at that time. Crusade gave me an excellent foundation, a little of it Calvinistic (as far as the meaning of sin, not losing your salavtion, true meaning of justification and sanctification, etc).

Hayford
2. Some years later a friend dragged me to Church on the Way where Jack Hayford was the pastor. It was here that I learned a balanced and very Biblically mature Pentecostalism.

Hagin/Copeland
3. Then in 1980 God dragged me to a Kenneth Copeland meeting. I argued with God that this was a very silly thing to do but He insisted. Thankfully I was able to throw the dirty bath water of the Word of Faith teaching out, but keep the "baby." And the "baby," the good part of that teaching, really did revolutionize my life. I have written about that in a previous series of posts, Word of Faith Teaching.

Horton
4. In the middle 1990's I happened to listen to a radio program, The White Horse Inn, a product of the Confessing Evangelicals as the Reformationists here in the USA now like to call themselves. One of the hosts is Michael Horton who has had a tremendous influence on me. Where I just had so much trouble with some of what R. C. Sproul was trying to say, Horton managed to get through to me, especially in his book, "Putting the Amazing Back Into Grace." I had never really heard the Reformed gospel before...not in it's entirety that is. And it made alot of sense.

I really do not see why Reformed theology cannot go along with the Pentcostal/Charismatic beliefs since they are both covenantal. But Horton and his colleagues would blanch if they saw a blogroll named Reformed and Charismatic ministries....LOL.
And the Third Wave Charismatics would too for that matter.

And...just for the record......I am not a lunatic.....:)

Diane

Reformed & Charismatic Blogs-Part I

Adrian Warnock has begun a blog for those of us who follow a more Reformed (read that Luther, Calvin and the gang) theology AND who are also Charismatic/Pentecostal (C/P) in their belief system. I realize that true Calvinists are having heart failure right now, although I suspect the C/P'ers find this quite interesting and perhaps amusing. Surprisingly, there are actually more of us Reformational C/P'ers out there in blogland than one might think.

Family tree wise, I am the last in both sides of my family. All of my grandparents evolved from Reformed churches. My maternal grandmother and her parents were Dutch Reformed until the Mormons got hold of them in Holland. But then if that hadn't happened, her parents wouldn't have moved to the "pronised land" of Utah, and then my mother wouldn't have been born and I wouldn't have either. So, that is one way to look at things. Go figure.
My maternal grandfather was descended from a long line of German Lutherans. His family wanted him to be a pastor but he said, "forget it" and ran away from home to California. But if he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have met my grandmother and I wouldn't have been born. Go figure.

On my father's side I had no chance....:). I am descended from a long, long line of mighty Presbyterians. On my paternal grandmother's side, one of my direct ancestors was the Rev. George Gillespie from Scotland who was the youngest Westminister delegate (divine) at the famous Westminister Assembly. They were the ones who wrote the Westminister Catechism with it's famous first question, "What is the chief end of man?" And guess who answered that question? Yep. Good 'ole ancestor George. His answer was taken from a prayer he prayed at the opening of the Assembly....."To know God and enjoy Him forever."

George Gillespie's grandson brought the family to America and got into a tiff with Benjamin Franklin. Franklin was backing a Presbyterian pastor who we would probably describe today as a cross between seeker sensitive and Unitarian. My ancestor said that to be a Presbyterian pastor, they had better follow the Bible. Well, he really said they should follow the Westminister Catechism. Franklin trashed my ancestor in his newspapers. But finally my ancestor and his team of pastors won.
You can read all about it here.

My paternal grandfather's family was what they call Scotch (Presbyterian) Covenanters. And that is pretty much all I know about them.

By the time all of my grandparents were adults (the early part of the 20th century) liberalism had pretty well taken over all of their churches.

And that is the world I was born into. The world of privelege and liberalism.
Tomorrow I will tell you how I became a Reformed neo-Pentecostal.

Stay tuned........

News from the Third Wave Front

Tenney

The more I hear and read Third Wave revival leaders, the more I see certain problems inherent in their belief system. And the more dangerous I see it is as they do influence their followers.

I listened to Tommy Tenney the other night on TBN. Tenney, author of the God Chasers, has a new book and venture, Esther. In typical Third Wave fashion we are told that like Queen Esther, we need to DO certain things in order to come before God (the King).

This sounds nice but frankly, it is just a rehash of the Middle Ages monasticism that taught there were certain ones among us that were holy because they tried really hard by practicing certain disciplines. These "special" people were closer to God than us mere peons.
I see the apostles and prophets of the revival movement basically are teaching the same thing. The central problem is one of Old Testament centeredness instead of New Testament/Christ centeredness. Yes, in the OT the people had to follow certain rules and rituals and the priests were required to followed more. And there wre some that seemed to have mor favor with Godo than others.
But in the New Covenant we really do not find people TRYING to pray as David prayed; or getting favor with the "King" by doing what Esther did.

We see in Hebrews 10:19-22,
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Do these people understand the word "assurance?" Do they believe we all have it? Or only they have it?

Romans 8:25-17 says,
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.

Was David a son of God? He was God's friend, but never was described as a son. Was Esther a daughter of God? The Jews were God's chosen people but never described as children of God.

We come to God in thanksgiving because of what Christ did (note the past tense of the verb) for us at the cross. We don't do works AND THEN come to Him. But this is the pro-Roman Catholic and pro-holiness theology that the Third Wavers teach.

No wonder I have met so many of their followers that now are in confusion and depression, not knowing what is theirs in Christ. They have little or no foundation of the five solas for example. If they are asked the last time their "revival" church went through one whole book in the New Testament (or even the OT) most would have to say never.


King

Before I watched Tenney, I listened to an online interview with Patricia King, an upcoming prophetess in Third Wave circles. She was interviewed by Steve Schultz, the editor and owner of the Elijah List. The title of the interview was "How God Brought me from the Occult to being a Prophetic Person." She went through her early life and then told how she found God. To her credit, she does mention receiving Christ which of course I liked because so many of thee people vaguely talk about finding "God." However, she reports that six months after she was saved, she took a class at her church, "How to Hear the Voice of God." I'm not going through this extensively at this point, but there is a theme that has been developing in me for many decades now...I will save that for another day. But I will just say this:
When someone comes out of either drugs and/or the occult, the last thing they need to take, at least in their first years of being a Christian, is something called "How to Hear God's Voice." The first things they need is absolutely thorough Biblical teaching. Then years later AFTER they have proven that they are out of occultic and/or drug-thinking deception, they probably could take a class like that.

There is one thing she said that I heartedly disagree with. She made this statement,
(I'm paraphrasing since I don't have the text of her statement)
The gifts in Eph. 4:11 (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher [she follows the five fold interpretation]) are to equip others.

Ok..so far so good as it does say that in Eph. 4:12. However, THEN she said that if you hang around an apostle you will become an apostle. If you hang around a prophet, you will become a prophet, etc.

WHAT??

That is her interpretation of Eph. 4:12:
for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

I rest my case.....sigh......

Ambra the Culture Columnist

Ambra Nykola, one of my absolute favorite bloggers, just landed a spot as a guest columnist for the online Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Everything she writes is so right on. You can read her first piece right here.

It's about naughty public figures such as Eminem, M. Jackson, Sean Combs and so forth. She questions why we are setting these types of people up as role models.

If I Could Write

My forte is public speaking. I am not a good writer as you can probably tell. Therefore, I am quite jealous of my fellow blgogers, all whom seem to be excellent writers. Brad at 21st Century Reformation is a good example of an outstanding writer. His blog today, Blogging on Blogging-A Passion for Content is basically what I should have written a few days ago.

Brad essentially asks what the purpose of a blog should be. He challenges people to write about the serious theological/Biblical questions they are asking so there can be interaction with others in the Christian Internet community. He believes that by discussing these vital questions, especially those about reforming the church, then perhaps we can actually have a 21st Reformation just like Luther did in the 16th century.

Well said Brad...:)

My Apologies to Women Bloggers

A few days ago I posted a blog about some women bloggers' material that on reflection was very poor judgment on my part. Therefore I want to offer my aplogies for using certain blogs as well as what I wrote. I could go into my overall purpose which was not meant to be injurious, but I won't as it will cheapen the apology.

I am usually a very ethical person but on this one I believe I went over some boundaries. So, I need to reflect on why I did that.

However, in the long run, the one who was hurt the most is me as I have lost much if not all credibility within the blogging community.

That post now has been deleted by me.

Thanks for listening.

Diane

Women Christian Bloggers-Another Perspective

I understand why some would be upset at my post the other day concerning women who call themselves Christian bloggers.
For a another and kinder perspective about some of the same women I wrote about, I give kudos to Rebecca for her post today, Round the Sphere Again.

The Persecuted Church Speaks Out

A few days ago I posted some interviews from Charisma magazine from soem Third World pastors and ministry leaders. Here is a good follow up to that post, from the ANZAC list (Andrew Strom). Let me make clear that THIS IS A FICTIONAL ACCOUNT BASED UPON WHAT MANY LEADERS FROM THESE PERSECTED COUNTRIES OFTEN SAY ABOUT THE AMERICAN CHURCH AND THEIR "MONEY."

For brevity I am going to take the liberty of editing the first part and just tell you it is about believers in America giving a check for 3 million dollars to a persecuted leader from behind the iron curtain. This is the response from that leader. And again, I want to ask the question, are we listening?

"It was several long moments before he at last spoke.  'It has
been a curious past several days,' he began, speaking softly.  
'I have been listening with great interest to the many discussions
and exhortations, all with the end in view of promoting the
Christian faith in a region of the world where one might conclude
never before had a single soul heard the name Jesus of Nazareth.'

'I must admit that when the invitation came to join you, and even
to address this gathering, I found myself seized with a certain
trepidation.  As you know, large assemblies of Christians such
as this have not been customary where I come from, and thus
most of my work among Christians has been in small groups of
less than one hundred.  Addressing several thousand I found a
very intimidating prospect.'

'In the end however, I decided to join you, for we pastors and
Christians from the regions formerly behind the Iron Curtain are
certainly excited about the new possibilities for evangelism in our
nations too.'

'But as I listened to more and more talk of money and pamphlets,
of missionaries being sent and books being shipped, of teachers
and pastors coming to help and train us in spreading the gospel,
and of your gospel TV and radio stations and your gospel trains
and gospel trucks full of your Western-style gospel paraphernalia -
your badges and tracts and stickers and music and gaily written
happiness-books with their joy-filled, razzle-dazzle Christianity - a
knot has steadily risen in my stomach.'

'Do not forget, I have spent much time in your countries.  I have
been in your churches and bookstores.  I have witnessed with my
own eyes the trappings of your so-called spiritual prosperity,
which is really no prosperity at all, but a hollow empty shell.'

'Something within me wants to shout and say to you all, 'Go
home to your contented and wealthy homes and communities
and churches.  The Good News of Jesus Christ is alive and
vibrant and is fully capable of carrying itself abroad into the hearts
of hungry men and women without the benefit of your expensive
and lavish commercial efforts on its behalf.'

'Why do you think that those of us such as my brothers
Wurmbrand and Duduman and Vins and others have been
risking our lives for all these years?  Each of us has been
imprisoned, beaten, tortured, humiliated because of our preaching
of Christ's gospel. Thousands upon thousands of our fellow Poles
and Russians and Slavs and East Germans have laid their lives on
the line for the sake of their faith and in order to share that faith with
others.'

'I tell you, my friends, God's church is alive and well in the areas
you represent as lost and in such desperate need.  Small, perhaps,
it may be, but it is alive and thriving because in our corners of the
world there is a price to be paid to call yourself a disciple of the
Lord Jesus Christ.  A price that cannot be measured, as you seem
to measure all things - by money.  No, you who hear my words who
I hope and pray are my brothers and sisters, it costs to believe in
the East.  It costs all you have to be a Christian.  So there are very
few lukewarm, halfhearted souls among us.  To be halfhearted can
cost you your life!'

'For years we have tried to alert you Christians of the West to the
true state of affairs behind the Iron Curtain.  We have written, we
have traveled, we have spoken, we have prayed, we have wept.'

'How many of you listened to us?'

'My brother and friend Alexandr Solzhenitsyn attempted for a
decade to be heard, as have so many others.  We asked for your
prayers, for Bibles, for help in teaching and training our people.  
And some help did come, for which we were grateful.'

'But the rest of you continued to feed your own mammoth
religious systems, building yet bigger and bigger transmitting
stations and more television stations and publishing more books -
all in the name of proclaiming the gospel.'

'But did you ever give of yourselves?  Did you come help us?  Did
you pray for us?  Did you suffer and die and starve with us?  How
much did you really care about the people you now so pompously
think you will save for the kingdom?'

'Where have you been all this time?  We needed your help and
prayers and support and Bibles when times were hard!  We have
been beaten and imprisoned and even killed for the gospel's sake.  
Where were you when it counted?  We lived our faith behind the
Iron Curtain, and now that it is down, who is to say we even want
you coming with your pompous egoism and self-reliance?....  Do
you truly expect us to share your enthusiasm and welcome you
and your wealthy brand of capitalistic Christianity with open arms?'

'Think again, my friends, those I would still call my brothers and
sisters in spite of your blindness.  Pause and consider the egotism
of your presumption and the worldliness of your method.'

By now the auditorium was filled with the heaviness of shocked
silence.  No one dared move a muscle or so much as shift in his
seat.  But Palacki's chastening diatribe was not over yet.

'How dare you well-fed, contented, prosperous Christians of the
West, come here now and think you can throw your money at us
poor unfortunates and suddenly save the world with all the gadgets
and inventions and high-tech wizardry of electronic spirituality!  You
with your multi-million-dollar architecturally imposing churches, you
with your computer Bibles and preprogrammed Bible Studies, you
with your posh cars and soft, upholstered pews, your grand libraries
of Christian books, your leather-bound reference Bibles, you who have
all the answers to the world's ills nicely at hand to spout off when
asked.'

'Have we Christians of the East been idle all this time?  What
would you have us to do, go off quietly somewhere so you can
come in and pat yourselves on the back before your watching
congregations and claim credit for saving all the souls who would
be lost without you?'

'No my shallow brothers and sisters of wealthy, contented
Western evangelicalism!  Build a prayer tower or a glass church
somewhere, but think not that your money can save souls.  Go
back from whence you came, and spend your evangelistic self-
gratifying mammon elsewhere!'

Suddenly he stopped, stood another two or three seconds gazing
at his listeners with calm countenance, yet flaming eyes.  Then,
with decisive motion he ripped the check he was still holding into
several pieces and let it drop to the floor.

Palacki turned and strode off the platform and out of sight, leaving
his hearers gaping in stunned silence."

Apostles Today?

Dan over at Cereleun Sanctum has written a few posts in which questions about apostles today beg to be answered.
Are there apostles today?
If so, who are they and how can we identify them?

He points out that most of the apostles (but not all, i.e. Barnabus) had a personal encounter with Jesus either before He was resurrected (the disciples) or afterwards (Paul).

He lists some characteristics that he thinks apostles should meet according to the Scriptures which he gives for each point.
*Taught by God and please only Him (Galatians1:11-12; 1 Thessalonians 2:4)
*Proclaim the word of God and divide it correctly (2 Corinthians 2:17; 4:2)
*Minister from the power of God, not the wisdom of men (1 Thessalonians 1:5; 1Corinthians 2:1-5)
*Blameless, holy, and gentle (1 Thessalonians 2:7,10)
*Encourage, comfort, and rebuke (1Thessalonians 2:11)
*Endure hardship, loss, and persecution on the Church's behalf (1 Corinthians 4:11-13; 2 Corinthians 11:23-31)
*Revel in the Church (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20; Philippians 4:1)
*Appointed to select groups by God (Galatians 2:7-8)
*Refrain from soliciting money for themselves (Acts 20:33-34; 2 Thessalonians 3:8-10)

He's asked his readers to comment on this topic, but since my comments would take up too much room, I've decided to blog about this important topic myself.

First of all, I absolutely believe there are apostles today. There is nothing in Scripture that denotes otherwise. If we accept the Ephesian 4:11 offices* for prophet, evangelist and pastor-teacher, then we must also accept apostle. To do otherwise is theologically dishonest.

But a problem arises when we give names other than the Bible specifies for various terms. When we do that we can give any definition and characteristics to it. So, it's much better to use the actual terms and definitions in the Bible text itself. First we must define what an apostle does. I personally take the late Kenneth Hagin's definition because Biblically it seems to fit the best. He says that an apostle is basically the combination of evangelist, prophet, and pastor-teacher. Here is where we have gone wrong in the western church IMO. We send out missionaries to do everything. Since the term missionary isn't a ministry in the Bible I'm not sure what these people are supposed to do. Basically most are evangelists. But because the church historically in the past few centuries have not recognized apostles, nor have they usually sent pastors, teachers or prophets once an area has been evangelized for the new converts, these evangelists are expected to do it all. Unfortunately, God didn't equip evangelists to pastor, teach or prophesy. They can do those things but that is not where their specific anointing lies. I believe that is one reason why missions on the whole have not been as effective as they could be in many Third World countries. The other reason is a lack of power evangelism. So, either an apostle who has all these gifts should be sent into unreached areas, or an evangelist with a back-up team of prophets and pastor-teachers until the new converts can mature to do these things themselves.
This was actually the New Testament model and so it should be today.
In my post yesterday I quoted church planter and trainer Natalia Schedrivaya from Russia who said,
"Church growth to me involves spreading the gospel to places where no one goes or wants to go." That is exactly what an apostle does.

Well then where do these apostles come from and how are they identified? Are they really the ones who suddenly suddenly announced to us they are apostles? Are they the ones who sit in air conditioned offices and seek to be over already existing churches? Have they raised the dead and healed the sick? Have they converted hosts of unreached people? I think the answer is obvious. No.

And what happened after the last Apostle died? The churches ran themselves with elders and pastors as overseers. However, they still sent apostles out to the unreached. The point I want to emphasize here is the submission of the apostles to the church sending them forth. We see this with Paul and Barnabus. They were sent out by the church at Antioch and when there was a big question about the Gentiles (Acts 15), they submitted that question to the elders there. Listen to this:

Acts 14:26 (NIV) ..they sailed back to Antioch, where they had been committed to the grace of God for the work they had now completed.

At that time in Antioch some teachers came teaching that Christians needed to be circumcized. This of course presented a big problem for the new Gentile converts. So, the church at Antioch felt they needed to submit it to the church at Jerusalem.
Now listen to this in Acts 15,

Acts 15:2...so Paul and Barnabus were appointed along with some other believers to g up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

Notice the passive verb were appointed. Paul and Barnabus didn't throw their weight around as Apostles. They submitted to their sending church.

We see an orderly progression here, not self-named apostles trying to get over already established churches (unless the founding Apostle OKayed it).

Who are these apostles then? The list that Dan presented (above) is a very good start. Apostles are sent out by churches AND they are under those churches. The only churches they are over are those they begin themselves with converts, unless perhaps a church invites them. Unfortunately I have personally seen this abused many times because some of these apostles today have a very strong spirit of control.

Apostles then evangelize, and then pastor, teach and prophesy to their new converts until elders and pastors and prophets and evangelists can be raised up within the converted people group. This was the Biblcial model in the first century and should be followed today too.

Here are two examples of apostles.
Saint Patrick. There is documnetary evidence, not just folk tales, that he actually healed the sick, raised at least one dead person and of course evangelized a whole country into Christianity (Ireland).

A modern day apostle IMO is the supervisor of the Foursquare church in Sri Lanka. He is a native Sri Lankan and fits the description both Dan and I have given.

Today, the Third Wave revival apostles (read that the Apostolic Reformation Council) maintain that they should be over all churches in each area. At least that is how I interpret what they are saying.
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*Contrary to what we are hearing from the Word of Faith teachers and others today, Ephesians 4:11 is a four-fold ministry, not a five-fold. The Granville-Sharp rule of Greek grammatical interpretation suggests in this text that pastor and teacher are not two separate ministries, but in actuality one.

*Why did I use the word office here instead of gift? The Greek word in Eph. 4:11 is domata, not charis (charis is the word used in both Romans 12:6-8 and I Cor. 12:8-10). Domata denotes more of an office, although many use the word ministry here.