The Other Side

I was pretty sure that my last post would convince people I'm against homosexuals/lesbians/transgendered people. I'm not. In fact, I wasn't on a tirade against them as much as evangelical churches that have weakened their theological boundaries and discipline. As for the end of that post, I wanted to show that the gay community aren't happy with us. Maybe we need to find out why. I also wanted to show that pressure to conform to many things the world wants is going to come at us more and more. And exactly how are we going to answer? I'm not sure we know that either.

Now for equal fairness:

*Why don't evangelical churches tell their heterosexual members or long-time attenders who live together out-of-wedlock that the church would need to discipline them ala I Cor. 5? Why don't churches at least say something about this phenomenon?

*Why don't churches say anything to their heterosexual members who are married but in adulterous relationships, that the church discipline will need to kick in for them to? Why don't churches talk more about THIS phenomenon?

Huh? Why?

It's Coming...Coming.....Uh...Actually It's Already Here

The seeker-sensitive church; the emergent church; the Third Wave Charismatic church. I never thought I would see these belief systems come into the evangelical church in my lifetime. Boy! Was I ever wrong!

And now what is next? How about acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle IN OUR EVANGELICAL CHURCHES! So far, this has been the balliwick of the liberal Protestant chruches. But now my friends, it has come to us.

I really don't have an issue with homosexuality in the world community as sinners live out there. BUT, I am majorly concerned about the amount of world we are allowing into our churches to sit there as MEMBERS, not simply as visitors.

*About one and a half-years ago (or thereabouts) some evangelicals held a meeting in Florida to discuss the possiblility of homosexuals who live monagamously having a part in the evangelical church (read that membership and even leadership).

Increasingly, there are gay friendly churches in the evangelical community. I don't mean churches that welcome gay visitors (to hopefully convert them as with any non-gay visitor). I'm talking about churches that welcome so-called already born-again gays; or, unconverted gays and then if and when they convert, churches that don't have a problem with monogamous homosexual or lesbian unions within their membership.

We also have "born again" lesbian Marsha Stevens, a singer who wrote, "For Those Tears I Died."

*And the non-evangelical gay community wants to help Christian schools and universities to not discriminate toward gays as that is mean. They are informing us that there are many closeted gays on those campuses (actually I do believe that).

Here is what Soulforce says is its mission:

At military and religious colleges around the nation, bans on gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender enrollment force students into closets of fear and self-hate. These bans devalue the life of GLBT people and they slam the door on academic freedom. The Equality Ride empowers young adults to challenge these college bans.

Scheduled to take place in the spring of 2006, the Equality Ride will take 25-30 young adults on a seven-week bus tour to confront numerous religious and/or military colleges that ban the enrollment of GLBT students. At each stop along the journey the members of the Equality Ride will present a powerful case for GLBT equality.

Here is Soulforce's Equality Ride (think freedom ride) schedule and the colleges/universities they will be visiting:

1 March 10 Liberty University; Lynchburg, VA
2 March 13-14 Regent University; Virginia Beach, VA
3 March 16-17 Lee University; Cleveland, TN
4 March 18 Union University; Jackson, TN
5 March 20-21 Oral Roberts University; Tulsa, OK
6 March 23-24 Oklahoma Baptist University; Shawnee, OK
7 March 27 Abilene Christian University; Abilene, TX
8 March 29 Texas A&M University; College Station, TX
9 March 30-31 CCCU Conference Dallas, TX
10 April 4 Biola University; La Mirada, CA
11 April 4 California Baptist; Riverside, CA
12 April 5 Azusa Pacific University; Azusa, CA
13 April 10-11 Brigham Young University; Provo, UT
14 April 13 Colorado Christian University; Lakewood, CO
15 April 14 U.S. Air Force Academy; Colorado Springs, CO
16 April 17 North Central University; Minneapolis, MN
17 April 18 Bethel University; St. Paul, MN
18 April 20-21 Wheaton College; Chicago, IL
19 April 24 Eastern University; St. Davids, PA


Here's the link to the Equality Ride if you wish to explore further:
http://www.equalityride.com/route

James Boice's Statements on Today's Evangelicals

The late James Boice made the following statement in his last and final book. I agree but I would like to hear your reaction.

"Evangelicals are not heretics, at least not consciously. If we ask whether the Bible is the authoritative and inerrant Word of God, most will answer affirmatively, at least if the question is asked in the traditional ways. Is the Bible God's Word? Of course! All evangelicals know that. Is it authoritative? Yes, that too. Inerrant? Most evangelicals will affirm inerrancy.

But many evangelicals have abandoned the Bible all the same simply because they do not think it is adequate for the challenges we face today.

*They do not think it is sufficient for winning people to Christ in this age, so they turn to felt-need sermons, or entertainment, or "signs and wonders" instead.

*They do not think the Bible is sufficient for achieving Christian growth, so they turn to therapy groups or Christian counseling.

*They do not think it is sufficient for making God's will known, so they look for external signs and revelations.

*They do not think it is adequate for changing our society, so they establish evangelical lobby groups in Washington to elect "Christian" congressmen, senators, presidents, and other officials. They seek change by power politics and money."

The Carpenter

An elderly carpenter was ready to retire. He told his employer-contractor of his plans to leave the house-building business and live a more leisurely life with his wife so that they could enjoy their extended family. He would miss the paycheck, but he needed to retire. They could get by.

The contractor was sorry to see his good worker go and asked if he could build just one more house as a personal favor. The carpenter said yes, but in time it was easy to see that his heart was not in his work. He resorted to shoddy workmanship and used inferior materials. It was an unfortunate way to end a dedicated career.

When the carpenter finished his work, the employer came to inspect the house. Then he handed the front-door key to the carpenter saying, "This is your house. My gift to you!"

The carpenter was shocked! What a shame! If he had only known he was building his own house, he would have done it all so differently.

So it is with us. We build our lives, a day at a time, often putting less than our best into the building. Then with a shock we realize we have to live in the house we have built. If we could do it over, we'd do it much differently. But we cannot go back.

Steve Saint on Chad Allen

If you've been reading this blog for long you might have noticed that I often present both sides to a controversy......to be fair...and also to stimulate thinking.

Yesterday I posted that Chad Allen, a homosexual activist, is playing Steve Saint in the Christian film, The End of the Spear.

I posted that the Christian community seemed to be divided about Allen playing in the starring role. Here is another interesting twist concerning the story. Steve Saint at first was against Allen starring in the film, but then changed his mind.

Here are Saint's own words:

Saint admits that he was shocked the first time he learned of Allen's orientation. "I could feel physical pain," he recalls, "thinking [that] somebody that lives a lifestyle like that is going to depict my dad." However, upon further reflection, he began to see the actor's involvement as possibly God-ordained.

Although he realized many Christians might be offended by Allen's role in the film, the Christian co-producer says, "I thought, 'What happens if I stand before God someday and He says to me, "Steve, I went out of my way to orchestrate an opportunity for Chad Allen to see what it would be like to live as your father did.' And then I could picture Him looking at me and saying, 'Steve, why did you mess with my plan?'"

Movies, Saint contends, is why Hollywood has had such a powerful influence in contemporary culture, as well as why he believes the makers of theatrical films need to be sensitive to the difference between saved and unsaved moviegoers. "My biggest fear," he says, "was that this would end up being Christians telling a Christian story to non-Christians that non-Christians wouldn't go and listen to."
.

Source: Agape Press
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/1/192006b.asp

Controversy Surrounding "The End of the Spear"

For those of you who haven't heard........

The film, The End of the Spear is starring an avowed homosexual, Chad Allen, who is using his stardom in the film as a platform to further the gay agenda.

Larry King featured Allen on his program the other night, along with some others including Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Allen also appeared recently on the cover of the leading homosexual magazine, Advocate.

The buzz in the evangelical community is whether Allen should have been chosen to play missionary Steve Saint, son of slain missionary Nate Saint.

The Christian blogs seem to be divided. Michael Spencer (Internet Monk) doesn't think it's a big deal and explains why.

Tim Challies on the other hand, does. I tend to weigh in on his side, especially after reading his quote from Steve Camp,

If Dr. Piper [a prominent Christian teacher] went home to be with the Lord say thirty years from now and a Christian based film company wanted to make a movie about his life and ministry...would you want an actor who was also a gay-activist to play John's life story? What if Elton John were to portray Charles Spurgeon [a well-known very evangelical pastor in the 19th century]?

Or what if it was your life or the life of your brother or father that was portrayed by a homosexual activist? It seems a little bit more dishonoring when it is the life of someone you know and love.
.

I would also add to Challies' commentary that there are many talented Christian actors in Hollywood who have the ethics and decency to turn down good parts because of their morality. Then when a part like this comes along, it's sad that it's given to a homosexual.

Should Christians go see the movie? Probably. It would be inspiring and perhaps a good evangelical tool too.

Prophecies for 2006

When you are on a prophetic email list (or lists) as I am, you get a lot of "prophecies" each December and January about what will happen in the new year. Sadly, these "prophecies have essentially been the same for at least the past 25 years.

Each year the Body of Christ is told that this year is their breakout year for prosperity and healing; that this year will be glorious if only we do more spiritual warfare; that this is the year the Church will take dominion over its enemies; and so forth...blah...blah... blah....blather...blather.

I received the following in my email in early December. It's meant to be a parody of course, but I think it's right on and should be the prophetic word EVERY year, replacing those "others."

The top 10 predictions for 2006

1. The Bible will still have the answers.
2. Prayer will still work.
3. The Holy Spirit will still move.
4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.
5. There will still be God-anointed preaching.
6. There will still be singing of praise.
7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.
8. There will still be room at the Cross.
9. Jesus will still love you.
10. Jesus will still save the lost.

Riddle: What Country Is This?

I know this is going to upset a lot of you but here goes.

(to save my hide I will state that I've been a mostly conservaive Republican all my 61 years. But wrong is wrong and I am sickened that Christians are not standing up for basic human rights that this country was founded on. Yes, I know how the argument goes. It's "war time" and that "makes it right" See my comments on the Japanese Internment camps at the end).

Can you tell me what country this is?

1. The country in question invaded one country in retaliation to an attack; and invaded a second country under what many believe were false pretenses.

2. The country used torture at times on their war prisoners nullifying the Geneva Accords. When asked about this, the country's government said words to the effect that, "These aren't members of a military group and so we do not need to abide by the Geneva Accords." The vice-president of the country defends this position vigorously.

3. Some citizens of this country are arrested without any constitutional rights being observed. For example, an American citizen from the state of Washington, an attorney who was NOT an Arab, was arrested because it was determined by the country's investigative arm that his fingerprints matched the PARTIAL prints found at the bombing scene in another country. The man was detained for two weeks without his citizen's right to habeus corpus; no access to an attorney; no access to a judge; and was in solitary confinement for 22 hours a day. Fortunately for him, it was found that his fingerprints were NOT the ones found at the bomb site in the other country. He was then let go without any formal apology.

4. In this country, domestic overseas calls can be monitored secretly without a warrant by a government agency.

Give up?

The answer is: The United States of America

And you didn't understand why parts of the Patriot Act disturb me. Mark my words and I will say this is as a prophetic word--someday this will come back and bite us Christians when WE are deemed to be enemies of the state by an adminsitration unsympthetic toward us.

Another view: Ask the 99% innocent Japanese-Americans from the 1940's how they felt about being herded into "internment" camps; their rights trampled as citizens of the USA during WWII? Hmmmm--50 years later we felt so awful about that, we paid them reparations.

I wonder what will happen 50 years from now? Will the Washignton attorney receive reparations from a conscience-stricken American populace?

Dan Responds on the Chinese Posts

Dan at Cerulean Sanctum has graciously written about my two posts on the Chinese Christian interviews. Here are the links to Part 1 and Part 2 of the Chinese Christian interviews I posted recently.

Dan's post is here.

I want to quote the middle part of his because it's exactly how I and so many others feel and believe about some of the new evangelical movements afoot.

He writes,
We tend to timidly toss in the towel when confronted with a mountain-sized challenge--or else we resort to the following:

Traditional Church - Form a committee to examine the challenge. Form another one when the original disbands because of in-fighting.

Emerging Church - Walk a labyrinth to clear our heads so we can think deep, spiritual thoughts about the challenge while asking, "What would Thomas Merton do?"

Seeker-Sensitive Church - Commission a demographic study to examine what most people think of the challenge, then design new programming that makes talking about the challenge culturally relevant.

Charismatic Church - Bring in a band of traveling prophets to have them scry the meaning of the challenge in terms of battle plans for Joel's Last Days Army.

What do Chinese house churches do? They fast and pray for as long as it takes for God to resolve the challenge..

I agree with you 100% Dan.

The Chinese Christians Put Us To Shame-Part 2

The interview continues.

For Part 1 of the interview read The Chinese Christians Put Us To Shame-Part 1.

Bro Denny: Let's move on to another important question. How do the Chinese Christian's evaluate AMERICAN CHRISTIANITY?

Bro Ren: They feel like the church in the West is playing games. They are troubled with all the LAUGHTER in the meetings. They are broken and weeping in their assemblies, and we are telling jokes. This brings very different results. They feel we are bound by traditions and programs and therefore cannot follow the Holy Spirit's leadings. We have to make sure we have that direct line to the Holy Spirit and seek to hear His voice. We can never overemphasize the difference between the followers of Jesus in the West and in China. These followers in China hear their Master's voice, and they follow Him. This is actually a very simple theology. The Christians in the West have been able to eliminate Christ and His direct presence in their midst. I have a feeling sometimes that the whole Christianity in the West could be going for years before they discover that Jesus has not been with them for a long time. He has gone somewhere else. He is not with them anymore.

Bro Paul: The personal message I got from Bro. Yun is that ofJesus asleep in the boat. His whole point was that so many people in missions, in churches, and in ministries start out with the power of God and great visions. But, then people think, "Okay, we can row it ourselves now. Thank you very much." And Jesus goes to sleep in the boat. Great storms arise. They have to wake Jesus up before it is too late to calm the storm. Make sure Jesus isn't asleep in your church, in your family, or in your life.

Bro Denny: What does the Chinese church believe about the Holy Ghost? It seems very evident that they are a powerful people. How does this work out in their theology of the Spirit?

Bro Paul: They believe it is God's command to every believer to be
baptized by the Holy Ghost. They also believe that we must have
continual fillings as our life goes on in the Lord Jesus. This is the
primary reason for all the amazing things that we have shared in the meeting. Imagine how different the American Christians would be if millions of them would be filled with the Spirit.

Bro Denny: What does the Chinese church believe about holy living?
This is an area of much confusion here in America. The professing church is filled with worldliness.

Bro Paul: They are conservative Christians. They order their lives
according to the word of God. Many do not have Bibles, but those who do study much to see what God says about living a Christian life. Their women are modest, in spirit and in their clothing. The Chinese culture is different from American culture, but what they wear is modest.

They are all poor, so they have no problems with fashion. This matter of holy living is a real problem to them when they try to relate to Christians from the West. They struggle when denominations try to claim them as "one of us," when they are very different.

Bro Denny: Some of the testimonies about healing are amazing. They cause me to sit in astonishment as I hear them. Could you elaborate on the subject of healing a bit more? How often do things like what we heard tonight happen? What is their theology of healing?

Bro Ren: First, let me answer the theology part of the question.
They have a very simple theology about healing. They believe that God is a healer. It is simply one of the many manifestations of His holy character. In America, you believe that God can heal. In China, they believe He does ALL the time. It is according to your faith and ours. You receive what you believe. The people are poor and cannot afford to go to the doctor. Because of this, they have to trust in God in ways that American's do not. Healings happen all the time, but people also have sickness that they have to deal with. Poverty and persecution brings extra hardships upon them, and thus they get sick more often. Sometimes God heals, and sometimes He does not. God is sovereign.

Bro Denny: Could you also comment on some of the other miracles that you share tonight? It is hard for us to relate to so many supernatural happenings. How does this affect the church there?

Bro Paul: They believe in a miracle working God. At first, in the
beginning of the revival, everyone was astonished as well. As God
began to work many miracles, the church just began to expect miracles. It is not a distraction as it is in the West. Miracles happen at a meeting, and the preacher just goes right on preaching the Gospel. THERE IS AN EXPECTATION THAT GOD WILL CONFIRM HIS WORD WITH MIRACLES. Eighty percent of the church has experienced miracles of some sort or another. Because of this, they expect them. They never glorify the miracles; they glorify God. The gift of miracles is in the Bible, and God worksthrough this gift to honor His name.

Bro Denny: Have you ever heard of someone being raised from the dead?

Bro Ren: Oh yes, it happens quite often. Many times when someone is killed, or dies from persecution, the leaders will go where the body is to pray and find out if God would have the person live again.

Bro Denny: I have often said in my preaching, "When persecution
comes, true unity will come with it, because there will be no mixture with the world." In light of this, what do they believe about unity? We have all this ecumenical confusion here in our land.

Bro Paul: Again, their theology is very simple. Their unity is based
on the essentials of the faith and true marks of discipleship. They
say, "Disciples witness, and are persecuted because they witness."
This is where the lines of unity are drawn. There are differences
among them, but they do not allow these to divide them in the war for souls. They believe there is more that unifies them than there is that separates them.

Bro Denny: Could you comment on the name given to these Chinese Christians. I am referring to the name "house churches." What is the significance of this name?

Bro Ren: The name signifies several different things. First , the
name is given because they meet in houses. There are several reasons for this, and I will comment on them in a moment. The second reason has to do with a distinction between them and the registered churches, which meet in buildings. The last reason is the most important one, they call themselves house churches out of conviction. They meet in homes because they believe it is more biblical. It is also true that they have to because of persecution, but the primary reason is evangelical in nature. Even if the government of china allowed them liberty to meet openly, they would still meet in houses. Meeting in homes is one of the greatest keys to the tremendous growth of the church. The more meeting places, the more they can win the lost to Christ. In addition, when they meet in houses, it does not cost them any money. Finances often slow church growth.

Bro Denny: Could you tell me what the church services are like when they meet together and feel free? I know there are times when they have to be quiet, but what is it like when they are free?

Bro Ren: The Chinese Christians are a lively, responsive congregation when they gather in freedom. They sing some hymns and some choruses, and the singing is wholehearted. During the preaching and open testimonies, there are lots of amens and hallelujahs. They meet in forests and caves to do this so they will not be heard.

Bro Denny: You mentioned in your presentation that revival has been continuing for decades. Can you give me some reasons why it does not grow cold or stop?

Bro Paul: As I see it, there are two reasons. First, the church is
busy fulfilling God's purposes for it on the earth. That purpose is
evangelism. As God's people do His work, He continues to pour out His Spirit upon them. This is a secret to ongoing revival. The Chinese church has a powerful vision of the Great Commission. They believe it is the Church's responsibility to preach the Gospel to their generation. The second reason flows out of the first. Because of their persistence in preaching the Gospel, they are persecuted repeatedly. This persecution brings purifying, and that brings more anointing. These two work together to create an atmosphere of revival.

Bro Ren: There is another reason why they still have revival. The
church leaders are careful to give the Holy Spirit His place in
directing the work. They allow God's Spirit free course to move how
and where He will. They see the American church as one that is too organized. The leaders have a saying about revival that I feel is helpful. They call it, "How to kill a Revival."

-Man wants to organize it to suit his understanding.
-Then after he has it organized, he then secures himself a
position in it.
-Once this is done, the Spirit is grieved, and slowly withdraws.
-Then the Revival becomes a history class, and everyone talks
about it in the past.

Bro Denny: Could you comment on the eschatology of the house churches? What is their end time theology?

Bro Paul: Their theology is again very simple. They believe that
Jesus Christ is coming again. He is coming for His bride who has
made herself ready. As far as the details of how all this will happen,
there are some differences. These differences do not divide them.
The strongest point of their theology has to do with evangelism.
They believe the gospel must be preached among all nations, and
then shall the end come. They get this from Matt. 24:14. Because
of this belief, they have strong convictions about evangelism. They
believe that if you are not actively busy preaching to others, you
are hindering the second coming of Christ, and you need to repent.

Bro Denny: For my last question, let's talk a little about the leaders
of this movement. The church is growing at a very fast rate, and yet
it is underground. Therefore, it would be hard to give much formal
training to the leaders. From an American perspective, many would
believe you cannot lead a church until you have had much formal
training. Obviously, this training is not happening in China, yet the
church is thriving. How can this be? Can you explain some of
preparations the leaders receive?

Bro Ren: Most of the top leaders are very poor. The strongest point
of their character is love. They pour out their lives for the
persecuted sheep in China both in labors and by subjecting
themselves to the dangers of imprisonment. One wrong move and they sit in a prison cell for five or ten years. This is love as many in America have never known. They do train their leaders. The training,
however, is very simple. They train them in three major areas. Let
me state them briefly.

*They teach them how to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and walk with Him daily. Then from that walk, they must learn how to witness for Christ in a dangerous hostile environment.

*They teach them how to die daily and how to die really. These are both very important because of the persecutions leaders face.

*They teach them how to escape the police when they are caught, and how to escape from prison if God says "Run."

The word of God is very important to these leaders. They have memorized and internalized many chapters of the Bible. They cannot carry a Bible around in their hands, so they make sure that they can carry one in their heart. The fire of the Holy Ghost is also very important in ministry. These men are constantly being empowered by the Spirit. This is leadership in China, and this is how the church spreads so rapidly.


(Bro Denny continues) This concludes the interview about the
Chinese House Churches. What can I say?...

Zion in America must reckon with Zion in China. "This God is our
God for ever and ever." When Communism closed the doors to China in 1949, there were one million believers in China. Now, fifty years later, there are eighty million disciples of Jesus Christ. There are also many true Christians in the registered churches. Christ is building His Church in China, and the gates of hell are not prevailing
against her. Praise ye the Lord. Dear brothers and sisters, let us
repent of our lukewarmness and unbelief... and let us believe God
for mighty things. The persecution will come. Most Christians in
America acknowledge this. We need to get prepared.

[Marc White]: Earlier this year at a conference on revival and
repentance, a prophetess asked the question how many in the room of 100 or so had the leading from the Holy Spirit that they'd be martyred here in America. I was surprised to see many hands go up in the air.

The Chinese Christians Put Us To Shame-Part 1

30 years ago not one evangelical would have questioned the validity of our Chinese Christian brothers and sisters being persecuted by the Chinese communist government. Sadly, today, there are people who want to minimize or even deny this is happening. I hope this interview will bring this thinking to rest, as well as shock us out of our own complacency. It brings the most informative material about Chinese Christians that I personally have ever read.
I edited some of it for brevity.

From The Remnant Magazine
-by Denny Kenaston
(Courtesy of Andrew Strom's ANZAC list)

"Recently, at our Youth Bible School, we had the privilege of hearing a detailed account of many of their [Chinese Christians] lives. Two men closely connected with the persecuted church in China shared their story. When the meeting was over, I sat and interviewed these two men, asking them specific questions which I felt would help us American Christians get a vision. This article is an account of that interview:

Bro Denny (American interviewer): When I was listening to you, I wrote a few questions that I had wanted to ask you. One is about fasting and prayer. How much do the people fast and pray in the house churches of China?

Bro Ren(Chinese): Let us take prayer first. The leaders of the church in China try to pray three to four hours a day. That is normal. But
then there are some brethren who are totally committed to pray.
Almost every minute they are awake, they are praying. They have two kinds of leaders in the church. They have spiritual leaders, who fast and pray; then they have practical operational leaders, who are active in everyday affairs of the church. The praying leaders are praying for the whole church, and especially for the practical leaders. They are not in a preaching ministry. The operational leaders go to them for direction and wisdom. Very few Westerners have ever met these elders. These men are older men who cannot travel anymore, so they are mainly
in that ministry. It literally keeps the church on track. They hear
from the Lord and give answers to the practical leaders.

Bro Paul (Chinese Christian): I know a brother who never sleeps more than two hours a night. He prays for 22 hours a day. The brothers and sisters pray always, and there are many all-night prayer vigils. I have been to some of these prayer meetings. By morning, the floor is slippery because of all the tears that flow during prayer.

Bro Denny: What about fasting? What part does fasting play in all
these testimonies we have heard?

Bro Ren: There are two kinds of fasting in China. Most of the pastors have to fast because they don't have money to buy food. It is a natural part of their lives. The other kind of fasting is out of a burden for someone or some spiritual issue.

The first time we sent about twenty people out to preach, nineteen
of them were arrested; one came back to report. Everyone else
was detained for six months. We sent another group. The same
thing happened. One lady came home on a stretcher. They smashed her skull. She was paralyzed, but later God restored her. When there is such resistance like this in one specific location, then the whole team goes to fasting and praying. Usually this kind of fasting will break the yoke within thirty days, and then the gospel has free course. When there is a real resistance, the teams do not try to push the gospel. They just go on their knees and wait on the Lord to hear His voice for direction on what to do. They just keep silent and continue to fast and pray. This is a very practical part of their lives.

Bro Denny: Do they have corporate fasting where the whole church
joins in when a need comes up?

Bro Ren: Yes, they do. When Brother Yun was arrested the whole church in China was fasting and praying.

Bro Denny: How do the Acts of the Apostles compare to the Chinese church? What does the Chinese church believe about the Book of Acts?

Bro Paul: They would say, "We are there. It is our normal Christian
life." They believe that Acts is a demonstration of the normal
Christian life. It is a testimony of the resurrected Christ, and He is
still the same today. They do not believe that miracles have passed away.

Bro Ren: We have to understand that the Gospel that is preached
in China, is a little bit different. The emphasis is not only
intellectual and mental messages. It is fifty percent preaching, fifty
percent showing the power of the Gospel. There is always an
expectation and readiness for miracles. It is normal that anytime
when the message of the Gospel is pronounced, there is going to
be a demonstration of the power of God in that situation. People
can see clearly that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He is the
Savior of the world. The church of China is not praying for miracles,
but they are living in miracles. It is like Paul said:
it is the normal Christian life.

Think about the challenge of the countries west of China, like the
many Muslim countries. The only thing that can really bring an
opening to these people is a demonstration of God's compassion. You have to show them that you have something more than all these gods they are bowing to. You have to prove your case, instantly and on the spot, that this is true - that Jesus is alive, and that He is the Savior of the world, and that He has all authority.

The Chinese house churches are living in the time of the book of
Acts. The Holy Spirit is working in their lives. They are just trying
to follow the wind of the Holy Spirit. It is something we miss. We
always want to settle, and we hope that the Holy Spirit will settle
with us and just be with us as we create these centers and places where we hope the Spirit will be moving in a mighty way. We have
to understand that God's Holy Spirit is moving all the time. We have to be very flexible. We should with the maximum effort join the Holy Spirit where He is working, not trying to work ourselves. It is always better to partner with Him, to find out where He is active today, where the battle is going on, and join Him there. Then we will be blessed with souls, and also the blessing will be reversed upon us.

Bro Denny: That leads me to my next question. What about missions and methods of evangelism? How do our Chinese brothers live out the Great Commission?

Bro Paul: Their theology and methods are really quite simple. They
believe there is only one reason why God has left them here on
earth: that is to evangelize the lost. Anyone who is not actively
pursuing this holy purpose is missing the mark. The Great
Commission cannot be compromised. Their methods are anointed
preaching with signs following. The leaders instruct the evangelism
teams to go to a new village and inquire about the worst problem
in the village. Then they are to go and minister to that problem and
show that Jesus is the all-powerful Savior. With this success, they
turn to the people and preach Jesus to them.

Bro Ren: I will give you a beautiful example of how this worked for
two young ladies who were sent to a village to share the gospel:

These two sisters, eighteen years old and very tiny, came to a
village of about three hundred people. There was one big problem.
There was a man who was possessed by demons. Somehow, the Communists were able to count that this man had twelve demons in him. He was learned in five different languages. He was so powerful that twelve heavy farmers could not hold him back. They tried with chains and wires, but he had the power to break free. This man happened to live at the entrance of that village. The whole village of three hundred people could not walk on the road, but had to walk in the forest, because the man decided that nobody was going to pass through his property. Whenever anyone stepped through the property line, which was invisible, the man would come out with a jungle knife in his hand, shouting, "I'm going to kill you!" Everybody was afraid. It was like this for many, many years.

Now, these two young ladies came asking, "What is the biggest problem in this village?" Everybody pointed to the crazy, demon-possessed man's house. The sisters turned around and started to move towards that house. They were walking and praying. The whole village came out from their houses. Everybody wanted to see what would happen. They knew where the invisible line was, and if they step over that line and enter into his property, they knew what would happen. He would fly out with a jungle knife, half-naked, with a crazy look in his eye, and all the demons would drive him forward to them.

Sister Lee, one of the young girls, was leading. The two of them
entered onto his property. The man ran out through the door with
a knife in his hand. This sister lifted up her hand and said, "In the
name of Jesus, stop." This man became frozen. He stopped in mid-air, like a statue. He couldn't move back, and he couldn't move forward. This man was as a stone. He couldn't do anything. He could not stand. His eyes were totally frozen.

This happens quite often in China. We know by experience that the body is frozen by the Holy Ghost, but the person can hear with his ears. You can share any message you want to with this kind of person. He can understand every word that you speak. Sister Lee went next to this "statue" and started to proclaim the Gospel. She then, through the name of Jesus, cast all twelve demons out of this man. He was instantly delivered. He melted in that spot, like butter in sunshine. He fell down onto the ground and was completely restored. The first words he said were "This Jesus is Lord." He was wonderfully saved and restored.

There was a very special group of people who stood together in the
village that day. There they stood, the two girls on each side, and
the man who used to be possessed in the middle of them. He was talking to these sisters, and together they entered into the village. As they passed the doors of the first house, the families one by one confessed that Jesus was the Son of God. The whole village with three hundred people surrendered to the Lord that evening.These are very simple Gospel methods: problem - solution - salvation.

Bro Denny: With results like these, they hardly need us Americans
to help them. We should be learning from them.

Bro Paul: Actually, that is not the case. They very much need
missionaries who can come help them and work together-but as equal brothers, not as Western leaders leading the show. That day is well and truly finished, and it is easy to see, they do not need our leadership. This is causing a great burden on the Chinese church. I sat in a meeting when one of the house church leaders stood up and said, "We just don't understand why people are racing into China from the West with their own vision and ideas, doing their own thing." He continued, "Why don't these people come and ask us what God has given to the church?" They are all bringing their new visions, and it is actually damaging the advance of the Gospel in China. The proud westerners do not even think to ask the Chinese church. The key is that first you must find out what vision God has given His body in China, then how you can be part of that vision. Do not bring a new vision.


TOMORROW: Part 2 of the interview

China Hires American IT Grads

Continuing with the theme of the last post--China's entry as a major player in the global market.

China is recruiting U.S. IT computer grads. They are being used by China both as a control on its own Internet revolution and as a potential resource for North Korea' cyberwar program.

So, in other words, these grads aren't used to create anything, but instead are used in preventing the free flow of information as well as spying on China' Internet users. Added to this, what China learns from these U.S. computer whizes it sells to North Korea to train North Korean computer IT people to hack into South Korean computers and spy on them.


It's interesting that during the cold war this would be virtually impossible--that is U.S. computer grads helping China or any other communsist country.

But why would our people be going over there to do this? Probably a shortage of jobs here due to companies shutting down because of the cheap goods being imported from............that's right........China.

I guess the Times...They Are a-Changin.

The New "Guy" on the [World] Block

When we talk about certain topics that impact families and communities or parts of communities, I believe we must see the larger picture. Is the same phenomenon occurring in other communities/states/provinces/countries/institutions? For example, when we look at control and codependency later on in the month, we will not only be looking at it in the home, but also in larger environments and institutions including the church. So, in the next few posts, as we talk about poverty in our families and communities, we need to see it as a larger issue than just someone out of work or not being paid enough or low on funds because of sickness. Since we live in towns, cities, states/provinces, countries and the world, let's look at the overall picture and how that filters down to the smaller environments of town and family.

I want to discuss with you in the next few posts a country that many Christians seem to be unaware of; asleep at the switch about; and, generally not able to effectively deal with its present realities. I'm talking about China. I want to look at China economically and then see how the underground Christian church is faring there, especially the Christians themselves.

On Saturday, Dec 31, 2005--New Year's Eve Day-- Chinese President Hu Jintao reiterated China's strong commitment to peaceful development in his New Year Address broadcast Saturday to domestic and overseas audience via state TV and radio stations.

"Here, I would like to reiterate that China's development is peaceful development, opening development, cooperative development and harmonious development," Hu said.

"The Chinese people will develop ourselves by means of striving for a peaceful international environment, and promote world peace with our own development," Hu said in the address broadcast by China Radio International, China National Radio and China Central Television.

And now further quoting from the news source that published the account:

He said the Chinese people are willing to join with peoples of all nations in the world to promote multilateralism, advance the development of economic globalization toward common prosperity, advocate democracy in international relations, respect the diversity of the world and push for the establishment of a new international political and economic order that is just and rational.

He pledged that China will adhere to its fundamental national policy of opening to the outside world, continue to improve the investment environment and open the market, carry out international cooperation in a wide range of areas and seek to attain mutual benefits and win-win results with all countries in the world.

He mentioned in particular that China will do its best to help developing countries accelerate development and help people suffering from war, poverty, illnesses and natural calamities in the world.

Let me summarize. In other words, China wants to be a major player in the world economically (and militarily too by the way), and it's pretty much at that point now. So what does this have to do with us?

Last night, during Numbers' commercials (one of my fave TV programs), I watched the PBS presentation of Walmart. Of course a big chunk of that program was about Walmart's relation to Chinese industry. What many don't realize is how Walmart's American supplier's are being forced to build their plants in China (and other SE Asian/Third World countries) or go out of business. The program focused on high end TV's being made here in America and in China. One company caved and is having their TV's made in China and still is in business. The other company refused to cave and let their American workers go and is now out of business.

I was thinking of American garment companies. If they pay even the minimum wage here in California which probably will go up to around $7.50/hr (that's what the governator wants), how long does it take to make a dress? How much will the worker make per dress? Add on material costs; company costs and salaries to other company workers; insurance for the company and workers; selling to department stores and those stores then hiking it up 40% or more and the dress costs big bucks. On the other hand, if the dress is made in China for $2.00 an hour or less and the company there has very little overhead costs in addition---well do you see the point?

I've been thinking about this a long time and frankly, I don't have any solutions. And I don't see any body else with solutions. Any one have ideas as to how to keep the jobs here?

And how does this impact the family? Of course it's obvious. If the jobs aren't here, people don't work and this country becomes an investment place for the rich, and low paying service jobs for the poor. And the middle class? Caught in the middle and sinking.

A good resource book about this problem can be found on the current best seller list. Thomas Friedman, op/ed columnist for the New York Times, thinks he might have some answers. His book is The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century .

A "Mixed" Church?

John MacArthur writes,

That is precisely my concern about today's pragmatic church-growth strategies. The design is to attract the unchurched. For what? To entertain them? To get them to attend church meetings regularly? Merely "churching" the unchurched accomplishes nothing of eternal value.

Too often, however, that is where the strategy stalls. Or else it's combined with a watered-down gospel that wrongly assures sinners that a positive "decision" for Christ is as good as true conversion. Multitudes who are not authentic Christians now identify themselves with the church. The church has thus been invaded with the world's values, the world's interests, and the world's citizens.

--source: "What is Accomplished by Merely 'Churching' the Unchurched?"
from Ashamed of the Gospel by John MacArthur

I often wonder what churches are thinking when they cater too too much to unbelievers. The word "church" in the Greek NT is "eklesia" meaning "the called out ones." Non-believers are not the called out ones. So who are? Christians. People who are called out from the world, although they are still in the world. People who are called out to be a holy remnant. People who are called out to preach the strong, powerful gospel--not gospel lite or gospel no.

And now, since the small group is all the rage, we are told that it is a very good evangelistic tool. Really? I wonder if the small group gurus have asked group members how they feel about an influx of non-Christians into their group. Do they really want non-Christians to pray for them? To give them their advice? Do they really want to share their inner most concerns with non-Christians? Really??

Perhaps churches need to think this through a bit.

So what is the answer for non-Christians? The original first-century plan called for Christians to share when they are asked for the reason of their faith (I Peter 3:15). And if non-believers wandered into the Christian meetings, fine. BUT, they didn't change the meeting for the unbeliever. The early first century Christian meetings had as their center, Christ and the gospel. Today it is difficult finding an evangelical church even talking about Christ much less sharing the true gospel. Not the gospel of purpose. Not the gospel of prosperity. Not the gospel of possibility thinking.

But the gospel of Christ; cross; salvation; justification; resurrection; power. Those things.

There can certainly be outreaches within the church for non-believers such as the Alpha Course, etc. But these are specifically designed for the unbeliever--not a mixture of believer and unbeliever (with the exception of believers who are ministering in these outreach programs).

Two other sources to consider besides MacArthur:
1) Wednesday nights at 9 PM PST on TBN, the program, "The Way of the Master" shows how to effectively evangelize using the law-gospel technique. The evangelist-hosts are Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (the actor). Their website is The Way of the Master.

2) HOW we hold church is another matter and is being vigorously discussed today. Studies are showing that the younger adults won't attend our services the way they are. And as I've said here ad naseum, if we change HOW we do church that is one thing. If we change WHAT the content is, that is a whole other story.

Dan at Cerulean Sanctum is posing the question, What about right brained people? He points out more right brained orientation is coming to your neighborhood church. And he asks, what are we going to do with this? Again, this is surely something, as he points out, that we should have grappled with long ago. But now is our chance. Dan talks about Christian artists especially and their place in the church. I think the three-part series is a MUST read. As you read his series, I think you will see clearly the evangelistic implications of the church embracing more right brained people, communicating to them effectively and using their talents.
Here are the links:

The Churches Brave New Brain-Part I

The Churches Brave New Brain-Part II

The Churches Brave New Brain-Part III

Mourning in the Morning

There are certainly good reasons to mourn today. Ariel Sharon. The West Virginia coal miners.

But I'm mourning this morning for a different reason. Probably stupid in many people's eyes. But this University of Southern California graduate can't help but be downcast today.

If perhaps you don't know what I'm talking about, read the first page of your local paper's sports section (today Jan. 5, 2006).

Sigh............

Vince Young.......sigh..........

UT........double sigh..................

The Village That Lived by the Bible

Here's a true story that illustrates once again, the power of God's Word. Why any Christian movement would want to go away from the power of the true Gospel Word is waaay beyond me.

The Village That Lived by the Bible
by Clarence W. Hall

It was early in 1945 when, as a war correspondent on Okinawa, I first came upon Shimabuku, the strangest and most inspiring community I ever saw. Huddled beneath its groves of banyan and twisted pine trees, this remote village of some 1000 souls was in the path of the 'American" advance and so received a severe shelling. But when an advance patrol swept up to the village compound, the GI's stopped dead in their tracks.

Barring their way were two little old men; they bowed low and began to speak. The battle-hardened sergeant, wary of tricks, held up his hand, summoned an interpreter. The interpreter shook his head. "I don't get it. Seems we're being welcomed as 'fellow Christians.' One says he's the mayor of the village, the other's the schoolmaster. That's a Bible the older one has in his hand."

Guided by the two old men, Mojun Nakamura the mayor and Shosei Kina the schoolmaster, we cautiously toured the compound. We'd seen other Okinawan villages, uniformly down-at-the-heels and despairing; by contrast, this one shone like a diamond in a dung heap. Everywhere we were greeted by smiles and dignified bows. Proudly the two old men showed us their spotless homes, their terraced fields, fertile and neat, their storehouses and granaries, and their prized sugar mill.

Gravely, the old men talked on, and the interpreter said, "They've met only one American before, long ago. Because he was a Christian they assume we are too, though, they can't quite understand why we came in shooting."

Piecemeal, the incredible story came out. Thirty years before, an American missionary on his way to Japan had paused at Shimabuku. He'd stayed only long enough to make a pair of converts (These same two men), teach them a couple of hymns, leave them a Japanese translation of the Bible and exhort them to live by it. They'd had not contact with any Christian since. Yet during those 30 years; guided by the Bible, they had managed to create a Christian democracy at its purest.

How had it happened? Picking their way through the Bible, the two converts had found not only an inspiring "Person" on whom to pattern a life, but sound precepts on which to base their society. They'd adopted the Ten Commandments as Shimabuku's legal code; the Sermon on the Mount as their guide to social conduct. In Kina's school the Bible was the chief literature; it was read daily by all students, and major passages were memorized. In Nakamura's village government , the precepts of the Bible were law. Nurtured on this Book, a whole generation of Shimabukans had drawn from it their ideas of human dignity and of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship. The result was plain to see. Shimabuku for years had had no jail, no brothel, no drunkenness, no divorce; there was a high level of health and happiness.

Next day, the tide of the battle swept us on. But a few days later, during a lull, I requisitioned a jeep and a Japanese speaking driver and went back to Shimabuku. Over the winding roads outside the village, huge truck convoys and endless lines of American troops moved dustily; behind them lumbered armored tanks, and heavy artillery. But inside, Shimabuku was an oasis of serenity.

Once again I strolled through the quiet village streets, soaking up Shimabuku's calm. There was a sound of singing. We followed it and came to Nakamura's house, where a curious religious service was under way. Having no knowledge of churchly forms or ritual, the Shimabukans had developed their own. There was much Bible reading by Kina, repeated in singsong fashion by the worshipers. Then came hymn singing. The tunes of the two hymns the missionary had taught ~ "Fairest Lord Jesus and All Hail the Power of Jesus Name ~ had naturally suffered some changes, but they were recognizable.

Swept up in the spirit of "All Hail the Power," we joined in. After many prayers, voiced spontaneously by people in the crowd, there was a discussion of community problems. With each question, Kina turned quickly to some Bible passage to find the answer. The book's imitation-leather cover was cracked and worn, its pages stained and dog-eared from 30 years constant use. Kina held it with the reverent care one would use in handling the original Magna Carta.

The service over, we waited as the crowd moved out, and my driver whispered hoarsely, "So this is what comes out of only a Bible and a couple of old guys who wanted to live like Jesus!" Then, with a glance at a shell-hole, he murmured, "Maybe we're using the wrong kind of weapons."

Time had dimmed the Shimabukans' memory of the missionary; neither Kina nor Nakamura could recall his name. They did remember his parting statement. As expressed by Nakamura, it was: "Study this Book well, it will give you strong faith. And when faith is strong, everything is strong."

Coming Up on Crossroads

In the beginning of 2006, these are some of topics we will be looking at:

*Of course we will keep monitoring the three muskateers of the "new" evangelical theology--the Third Wave Charismatics, the Seeker-sensitives, and the Emergents. If any others pop up, we shall report it.

*China is emerging more in the economic life of Western nations. We'll look at one aspect of that, then read interviews of the poverty, persecution and zeal of the Chinese Christians.

*Looking at the poverty of Chinese Christians will segue us into the subject of poverty (and prosperity) from various Chrisitan views.

*I will take on at least one of the Sovereign Grace Charismatics as well as other Charismatics who take a compromised position on Healing of the Atonement.

*Is church for Christians or non-Christians? I take a strong postion on this one.

**And for the grand finale.....later on in January, I will begin a multi-multi-part series on a hobby of mine for the past 25+ years:

Control and Codependency.

We shall look at what control is, what codependency is, see both in the home, the workplace, the church, and in various governments/countries through the study of some of the main dictators of the 20th century (Hitler and the Holocaust is my specialty as I've been interested in the Third Reich for 45 years).

So stay tuned.........:)