Codependents: Fantasy vs. Reality

I've known many Christian codependents in my time. Most of them are in therapy, many of them are on anti-depressants, and a few have gone through the 12-step program. And frankly, I haven't seen a lot of change or growth. Oh yes, they know a lot after being in therapy for many years, or in the 12-step program over and over again. But change? Not usually.

Why?

I see that this type of person is often detached from themselves. It isn't uncommon for them to talk about out of body experiences they've had when they were younger (or even as adults). It's understandable why this happens - because of the abuse in childhood, whether physical-sexual or psychological abuse. To escape, the child must detach themselves from themselves. They usually go into a fantasy world and divorce themselves more and more from reality. So, if someone tells them they are being abused and controlled, often the codependent is so far into fantasy and so detached that they don't know what the person is talking about.

They have time management problems because time isn't important to them.....time just happens as it happens, interwoven with the fantasy world. They often don't know when or what to eat as the detachment from their bodies plays out. This also affects sleeping patterns. They often don't know when to go to sleep or how much sleep is needed. And so, this is where the controller comes in. The controller tends to be a rigid type and knows exactly what and when to eat; when to sleep, and so on. The codependent, needing a bridge to the outside real world, is basically asking the controller to be this bridge.

Red Flags
In the last post we saw codependents ignoring red flags although they usually saw them. They are so desperate for the controller to order their life that they cannot afford to see red flags. Because the codependent is a master of enabling and excusing evil, the red flag is ignored and the controller can continue the relationship with the codependent.

The codependent also often confuses this behavior on the part of the controller as love, not only because of the bridge, but because of what they were used to in parental figures as a child. Losing the "love" of the controller then is another reason for ignoring red flags. I feel strongly that the red flag syndrome is very important but I seldom hear therapists and other people working with codependents talking about this much. If someone says they are getting out of their codependency BECAUSE they were in therapy or recovery groups, AND they don't exhibit the
following four characteristics, then I don't believe they really are growing out of it.

The four characteristic that MUST be seen in a codependent getting healthier are these:

1) Seeing and doing something about red flags; not ignoring them OR minimizing them.

2) Stopping the excusing and enabling of control/abuse.

3) Not drawing controllers to themselves; drawing healthier people as friends and lovers; and, bosses and pastors.

4) Stopping the playing of the blame game with the controller(s).

Until I see these growth patterns, I tend to take with a grain of salt someone who says they are not codependent anymore. If that sounds mean, I don't want it to be, but I don't think it does these people a lot of good to string them along, telling them that they are getting better if in fact, they are not. Should we encourage codependents? Absolutely! But, let's not encourage them to remain in their fantasy worlds. Little by little - and it must be a process - let's help to guide these wonderful, sensitive people into the world of real. That is where God lives - the world of real.

Codependents: Red Flags

Red flags are signs that something is wrong; is amiss. Codependents have trouble "reading" and acknowledging red flags. They tend to be drawn to controllers who often exhibit the red flags of excessive criticism, insistence on making decisions for others, and moral-ethical laxity which rests on the foundation of lawlessness and rebellion.

I used to think codependents didn't see red flags. But now, after talking to scads of them, I know better. The real truth is they DO NOT WISH to see red flags. In fact, if someone points out some of these danger signs to them, their tendency is to simply enable and excuse the controller's behavior. Instead of looking at the relationship more carefully and proceeding slowly, the codependent keeps going down the slippery path headlong.

A typical codependent response might be, "Well, they [the controller] had a bad childhood and cannot help the way they act." Or, "I can help them improve if I just love them more."

Until the codependent is willing to see and change this tendency, no amount of therapy or recovery-12-step or other codependent group programs will change them.

In fact, do codependents really change after individual therapy, group therapy and 12-step or other programs? The answer might surprise you. We'll explore that in the next post.

C & C: The Codependent - Intro

[*C & C = Control and Codependency]

Codependents have a tendency to think if they are involved in the right programs or therapy, they will improve But because they are so out of touch with themselves, they don't always really know how to gage improvement And frankly, I don't see that years with certain therapists, Christian or otherwise; or the 12-step program, helps them much in this area. Regarding the 12-step and similar recovery programs, Alcoholics Anonymous was started for alcoholic men, most of whom are controllers. I don't see that this program really helps codependents although it might offer insights to the person about themselves. But that would be helpful to anyone.

The codependent's problem is one of being in a fantasy world, not in always in reality; and not in touch with their real feelings, bodies and so forth. Because most of them were controlled and many abused, they learned to live in a fantasy world which included:
--not thinking for themselves since they were required to have someone else do that.
--not having too much discernment or discrimination when it comes to whom to trust.
--many had almost what would be considered "out of body experiences" in order to avoid mental and sometimes physical pain. The result of this can be not knowing what to eat, when to eat, when to sleep, how much sleep to get, time management problems and so forth. Classes to help the person with these issues don't work as diets and time management classes only address the symptom. But the root problem is the codependency and that is what needs to be addressed. I find that if and when codependents begin to REALLY get healed, the eating disorders, sleep problems and time management problems just begin to change and get straightened out.

And the opposite is also true. If these symptoms do not change, then we have to question as to whether the codependents are really becoming as whole as they or others claim.

The next post will discuss the three problems codependents have to deal with.

C & C - Handling the Controller

*To shorten the titles from now on, I will refer to Control and Codependency as C & C

**Disclaimer - Before I begin this post, many things I will say today do not apply to children as they cannot control their environment nor are mature enough to understand how to do so even if they could.

In the last post we looked at the characteristics of a controller. But how do you avoid their long tenacles?

Perhaps controlled people need to think like their controllers think. In other words, If you were a controller, who would you NOT control? And, why?

Let's explore this a bit. I would invite you to add to my list in the comments section.

1. Be friendly but business like. This drives controllers nuts because they sense "boundaries" around you. One problem with many codpendents is their "too friendliness-too soon" persona. This creates a sense of weak or no boundaries. However, you must be friendly or it will make the controller feel rejected and then he/she will be out to get you even more. Controllers usually have major rejection issues.

2. If you can, surround yourself with people, especially important ones. This sends a BIG message to the controller that he/she will have to contend with your friends/family if he/she messes with you. Do NOT break ties becuse the controlelr wants you too.

At work, especially be really friendly with the boss, even going to him or her a lot. This drives the controller nuts. If the controller IS the boss, see if you can get cozy with the one over him. If not, then perhaps someone who is the next important person in the department. BUT, beware! Don't talk too much and reveal things to anyone as this could leak back to the controller and they will use it against you. Yes they will..this is how the controller operates.

3. Try to pin the controller down to be specific. In the last post we saw control is often done by issuing vague statements. This is also another method of putting up some boundaries to the controller.

4. Do NOT minimize or excuse/enable wrong things (evil, sin, wrong doing, lawlessness, unethical behavior, etc.) by the controller. This is another MAJOR mistake codependents make. However, also do not accuse him as this will make the controller dangerous. If you must respond to the controler, simply make calm statements that you don't agree with what they are saying or doing. After all, you have a right to your opinion.

In the workplace this is difficult as firing is always an option by the controller and many times they will give you bad references because "you came against them." In a big company the controller might have more trouble controlling depending on the organizational structure of the company. In a small compnay, you're usually toast because there are no "buffer zones [people]" between you and the controller.

In the home, this is also difficult- in a marriage or with parents.
If the controlled spouse can support themselves and hide from the controller (if the abuse gets dangerous), then perhaps a separation must be considered.

Otherwise, go slowly with the controller - don't hurriedly throw all of this at them at once. It's important you gain some control over your situation. One way to do this is by setting the time table yourself instead of allowing the controller to do so.

Any more you wish to add to this list?

Control and Codependency - The Controller

As I attended various churches where pastors were extememly controlling and at times abusive, I wondered why so many people would stay in them so long. I realized this wasn't just a church problem; it was a people problem. People who continually sit under controller-abusers when they don't have to often have a history of this in their personal lives too.

In the 1964 best-seller Games People Play, Eric Berne talks about sub-conscious patterns or "games." Taking that theme, let's look at the two main "games" that controllers play. These are patterns that codependents fall for; but if they understood what was happening, perhaps they wouldn't fall for them, or would they? When we cover the codependent in a future post, we'll see what codependents do in these instances...and why.

Controllers:
1. Must look good at any cost
2. Must be always right

Many controllers, to make sure that they look good and are always right, "set up" others, often their codependent, to look bad nd be wrong. The device used by the controller is to be vague. Most codependents have been taught in their family upbringing not to question, so they readily accept vague statements. As a result the codependent has no clue how to carry out the controller's wishes--because the sub-conscious desire of the controller is to " keep them guessing." Here are some examples:

In the home:
A controlling husband asks for chicken for dinner but doesn't tell his wife how to prepare it. And, she doesn't ask. Or. if she does, he responds with, "I don't care. Fix it any way you like."
Then when she serves it, he says, "What's this slop? Why would you prepare it this way?" This is the "set-up" the controller uses to be right and look good.

At work:
A controlling boss asks his/her secretary to prepare a document on the word processor. When the secretary finishes, the boss bellows, "What's this? The margins are all wrong!" The secretary, flustered, replies that this is the regular business way of setting margins for this type of document and since the boss didn't specify another margin, she did it the regular way. To this the boss says, "Well, it's wrong and you should have known that!"

The Communist leadership in the former Soviet Union:
KGB to a Christian: We are arresting you.
Christian: Why? What did I do?
KGB: For subversion
Christian: What subversion? I was just preaching my religion in my church building. Our Soviet constitution guarantees freedom of religious experession.
KGB: (ignoring what was just said about freedom of religion) You are being subversive and you know it and you should have know what activies constitute subversion in our eyes.

Controlling pastor
Pastor: Some people in our congregation are coming against us and they know who they are. Sadly, no one knows who they are nor do they know who he is talking about. This is often used by controllers in a 'us vs them' "game" to rally the troops around the leader and against the "subversives." Almost every dictator uses this. Hitler is an excellent example of how this device is used and we will study him in depth in latter posts.

Control and Codependency - The Backgrounds

Incident #1 - When I was in high school, my closest friend was a Jewish girl whose Austrian parents had to flee their native country when Hitler invaded it. It was at that time that I became interested in the Holocaust. In those days it wasn't spoken of very much because I suppose people just couldn't believe it happened. Not in Germany. Maybe in a pagan land; but Germany?

Throughout the years one question especially intrigued me, as it has many others - where in the world were the German people? What were they thinking and how did they end up in that mess? This led me to study the psycho-social history of modern Germany between 1870 until the end of WWII in 1945. I also read many books on late 19th c. to early 20th c. German anti-Semitism, as well as European anti-Semitism in general. Then this led to reading about the history of the Jews in Germany since 1600 at the advent of Moses Mendelsohn. I was particularly interested in the dynamics between the German gentiles and the German Jews; between the German monarchy and the German citizen; and the role of political societies and groups, such as the Nazi Party in pre-WWI and pre-WWII Germany. I found that many, if not most, of these groups had three things in common:
-they were highly nationalistic (German nationalism)
-they were anti-Semitic
-they were interested in the occult

So what does this have to do with control and codependency?

Well, hang on, and let me turn to another period in my life. Then I will bring it all together and explain why this subject has become a fascinating hobby of mine.

Incident #2 - After high school I became a Christian and many years after that I began to go to a certain type of church, mainly for the particular teaching they offered. Sadly, I saw that these churches had a faulty organizational structure that led to too much control and at times abuse by the pastor. Seeing the characteristics of this control reminded me of what I had read about Hitler and the Third Reich.

Incident #3 - At the end of my time with these particular churches, I remember being on vacation from my job and watching TV. I often enjoyed Oprah Winfrey's programs as in those days she had more serious topics. This particular day she was interviewing the therapist of probably the most codependent person to date - Hedda Nussbaum. If you haven't heard of her, you can visit my website; and/or stay tuned as in one of the future posts I will be discussing her. A realization struck me during that TV program. We really cannot understand control and those being controlled, unless we start to understand it in the smallest environment - the home. In other words, before we really can understand control in the church, we must see it in action in the home, since the church is made up of individuals who have a home life.

So, to put this in a nutshell, I've studied control and codependency in the home, the workplace, the church, and in governments.

After studying Hitler and the Third Reich for many years, I began to read about other dictators, mostly in the 20th century. I think I have now covered them all except for Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein and the North Korean guy whose name escapes me. My list of those studied includes Stalin, Lenin, Idi Amin, Franco, Musslini, Hitler of course, the Romanian Ceaucescu, Kemal Attaturk (Turkey); and Emporer Hirohito and the Japanese War Ministers. I also researched Napolean and one of these days will probably read about Julius Cesar and Gengis Kahn.

And what have I learned from all of this reading and research? Well, guess what? All of the controlling husbands, controlling wives, controlling parents, controlling bosses, and controlling government leaders have things in common. AND, all of the people under them - the controlled spouses, children, employees, congregations, citizens often also have things in common.

So, in the next weeks we will observe what these characteristics are and how they affect you, your home, your workplace, your church, and your world.

Coming Up...

My next post will be up on Monday. Meanwhile, I'm organizing my thoughts and notes for a long series on control and codependency which will begin on that day...Monday, February 13.

Questions that You Must Answer Concerning Faith

This post will probably land me in the land of Christian blog deep doo-doo. But here goes. I have hinted around of what I am about to say several times in the year and a half that this blog has been up. But today perhaps I need to come out and say it loud and plain and clear. I believe God is leading me more and more to take that stand.

It all began with Dan over at Cerulean Sanctum. Once again, something he wrote lit a fire under my breeches.

In his recent post, "Word of Faith Stupidity" or "Standing on the Promises"? , he writes about the place of faith in our praying. Here are some snippets from that post:

"It seems to me that too many of us take God's promises too lightly."

"Lack of contentment, in many cases, is what drove great men and women of the Bible to pray big prayers and expect big things. But even the nameless people were not always content with their station in life. Lepers, the blind, and the lame all came to Jesus and asked for healing because they were not content with being infirm or diseased the rest of their days."

"Contentment does not mean resignation, but too often I see Christians treating it as if it were such. Being content means always keeping our eyes fixed on Christ, but it does not mean being a doormat for every lousy happenstance that comes our way."

So, OK, here goes----

In 1980 God draggged me quite unwillingly into the Word of Faith movement. Yes, those dreaded names, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland. THAT Word of Faith movement. Those guys. Fortunately for me, by that time I had been a born-again Bible reading Christian for 17 years. I dated Fuller Seminary guys. I didn't date non-Christians except for two years when I "backslid" in the early 1970's. My backsliding consisting of watching too much TV, not going to church, and drinking one rum drink once a week when out on a date with a non-Christian. After my two year "wilderness" hiatus, I got back on the wagon and started to go to some wonderful churches including John MacArthur's Grace Community, the old and very well-known out here in S0. Cal--Van Nuys Baptist Church, and the famous (or infamous depending on your view of Pentecostalism) The Church on the Way with pastor Jack Hayford. Since I was anti-Pentecostal and anti-Charismatic, God had to drag me into that world also.

I was an avid reader of Christian theology and magazines. I was a part of the Charismatic Renewal, being in a Presbyterian Charismatic group in the 70's and reading the CGM group's writings, which by the way were very, very good until they got into that stupid shepherding thingy. In the 90's I discovered the White Horse Inn and began to read more Reformational theology. And surprise, surprise! I didn't see much inconsistency with Pentecostalism and Reformationalism (although the Confessing Evangelicals probably would heartily disagree with that that assessment).

So now we are at 1980. God drags me into the Kenneth Copeland West Coast Believers Convention. I sat there with a dare-me look. After the intensive week, I began to see that SOME of the WOF (Word Of Faith) teaching had merit AND that almost every other church was NOT teaching some of this stuff AND they SHOULD be.

And so that is where I am coming from today. The Word of Faith teachers are basically asking the Body of Christ some essential questions. Sadly, the Body of Christ isn't answering these questions. Well, except for Dan and a few other non-WOF'ers. Of course I think we all understand that one reason for the silence to the questions is because of the WOF'ers unbalanced teaching and at times their extravagant lifestyle.

One word (and I've said this many times before here)--Kenneth Hagin didn't seem to be part of this prosperity gospel..at least not for the last 25 years. he wrote a marvelous book which I highly recommend, The Midas Touch, where he roundly refutes most of Copeland's prosperity teachings. He even refutes Roberts' seed faith teaching. And Hagin uses pure Scripture to refute these ideas; not revelations or his own opinions.

Here then are the questions I believe the Body of Christ need to answer; the questions the WOF'ers are asking. And it is imperative in these dangerous times that we don't cop out by playing the blame game with the WOF'ers. It doesn't matter what they say or don't say; what that do or don't do. What IS important is what we say and what we do.


1. What is the true definition of faith and are we as Christians really carrying that out?
[Hint: Hebrews:11:1-study the Greek word for "hope" here. it isn't like the English definition]

2. Why is faith not only important, but mandatory in our lives and prayers?
[Hint: Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23b

3. How do we get faith?
[Hint: Romans 10:17]

How does our faith grow? What does confession have to do with this? What is this name-it-and-claim-it thing anyway?
[Hint: Joshua 1:8; Psalms 1:1-3; Phil. 4:8; James 2:17; Hebrews 4]

4. Was Healing in the Atonement? If so, that will affect how we pray. If not, then how do we explain the following source verses?
You might wish to read my presentation of this in my post, Healing in the Atonement.
[Source verses: Isaiah 53:4-5; Matt. 8:17]

As I said, sadly, so many of the WOF teachers have really blown it in many areas and turned many away from what I FIRMLY believe God wanted to teach the Body of Christ. I am praying God will not give up on us but raise up other teachers to teach it right, in balance, and to have a moderate lifestyle. I hope I might be one of those teachers.

Dan continues,
"The Word of Faith'ers stumble because they often fall prey to what James describes. Nor are they always asking with their eyes on Jesus alone. Yet as much as their antics are a disgrace, they do a better job than some of us at taking God at His word."

And I think that is a great summary of the two-edged sword; the good things and the bad things that the WOF'ers confuse us with. But once again I wish to emphasize--and I believe Dan was saying this in a way --let's not use the wrong teachings of the WOF crowd as a convenient excuse to dump the whole thing.

Prayer

At my last small group meeting, I informed the other members that I didn't pray if I didn't think my prayer would be answered. After all, why pray if it's for nothing.

The group members looked at me like I had rocks in my head. I guess this is what the Word of Faith teaching does to you....:)

With that in mind, please do read Dan's excellent post on prayer.