Adult Children of Divorce - The Series

Here are the posts from the Adult Children of Divorce series based on the book by Elizabeth Marquardt, Between Two Worlds :The Inner Voices of Children of Divorce.

Part 1 - The introduction to Marquardt's book and the concept of "good" and "bad" divorces.

Part 2 - Children of divorced families often feel they really have no home.

Part 3 - Are there really "good" divorces? This post will examine that common belief and tell us what children of divorce really feel.

Part 4 - In an intact family parents work hard to present a unified approach in discipline and values. But in divorced homes there are often two sets of everything to confuse the child.

Part 5 - Often children of divorced families must worry about the feelings of each parent and keeping things together. Should this be a child's role?

Part 6 - Children of divorce often have to keep the secrets of one parent from the other parent.

Part 7 - Trust is often shattered in children of divorce.

Part 8 - This book is unique in that it asked adult children of divorce about their spiritual lives, both as children and now as adults.

Part 9 - The fifth commandement tells children to honor their parents. What does this mean to adult chidlren of divorce?

Part 10 - In the book's conclusion Marquardt argues that divorce does have a negative impact on children and there are no "good" divorces. She also reiterates her findings that 2/3 of all divorces are from low conflict homes. She appeals to parents not be so selfish and think for once about their children.

Part 11 - In this post I peresent a few of the 125 questions Marquardt and her survey partner, professor Norvel Glenn asked 1500 adult participants, both from divorced and intact families.

Adult Children of Divorce - Stats

For the past 3 weeks we've learned about the reality of how adult children of divorce actually feel - not what the "politically correct" wants us to believe. Our guide has been Elizabeth Marquardt in her groundbreaking book, Between Two Worlds :The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. The book was based on interviews from a survey done by Marquardt, affiliate scholar at the Institute for American Values, and Professor Norvel Glenn of the University of Texas. Here are a few of the 125 questions I picked from the survey. My comments may appear in [brackets] before some of the questions.

*Interestingly, when asked how happy and satisfied they were these days, the percentages were almost even between those from divorced families and those from intact ones (both were around 95%)

In other questions the differences were at times striking.
Agree means those that either strongly agree or somewhat agree (I rounded off percentages).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[I consider this verging on abuse as it puts way too much ethical stress on the child]
*At times one of my parents would ask me to keep important secrets from the other parent.
from a divorced family-27%
from an intact family-9%

[This is just sad]
*At times I felt like an outsider in my home.
divorced family-30%
intact family-17%

*What my mother said was true, and what my father said was true were often two different things.
divorced family-51%
intact family-20%

*I felt like a different person with each of my parents.
divorced family-43%
intact family-21%

[The next two questions show how much responsibility the children of divorced families often had to take upon themselves]
*I always felt like an adult, even when I was a little kid.
divorced family-68%
intact family-38%

*When you were growing up, did you feel too responsible for taking care of your mother?
divorced family-24%
intact family-7%

*I had to take sides in my parents' conflicts.
divorced family-32%
intact family-11%

*Christmas or Hanukkah was a stressful time in my family.
divorced family-36%
intact family-15%

[The next four questions shows us influences of parents upon the religious faith of the child]
*My mother encouraged me to practice a religious faith.
divorced family-57%
intact family-78%

*My father encouraged me to practice a religious faith.
divorced family-31%
intact family-73%

*My mother taught me to pray.
divorced family-41%
intact family-80%

*My father taught me to pray.
divorced family-17%
intact family-47%

[The sense of family is often shattered in families of divorce]
*I feel that I can depend on my friends more than my family.
divorced family-23%
intact family-12%

[Notice that more than 3 times those from divorced families than intact families agreed with this next statement. Perhaps this says something to our culture?]
*My parents have told me they got married too young.
divorced family-39%
intact family-12%

*I think of God as the loving father or parent I never had in real life.
divorced family-38%
intact family-22%

*Children were at the center of my family.
divorced family-66%
intact family-89%

[And finally, look at these stats]
*I was alone a lot as a child.
divorced family-44%
intact family-14%

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 10

This will be the next to last post on the review of a book that had a deep impact upon me and really aided me in understanding adults who went through the trauma of their parents' divorce. The book is Elizabeth Marquardt's Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. The next (and last) post will be some of the questions on the author's survey that I feel are important and useful in understanding what really is going on. Today we shall hear Elizabeth Marquardt's plea to stop calling some divorces "good."

Getting Honest About Children of Divorce
In Marquardt's words,
...the first generation of children of divorce has grown up and started to speak out. Yet in the debate about divorce, our culture is turning its back on children. Compare the story in this book with what the culture continues to say:

*The real problem with divorce lies with parents who can't stop battling. If parents can achieve a "good divorce," then the children will be fine.

*Children who do not end up damaged are fine and no one needs to worry about them.

*Divorced families are just one of many family types. We should embrace family diversity and stop making divorced parents feel bad.

*it doesn't matter whether a child's mother and father are married and living together. All that matters is that the children have a loving family.

All through this book Marquardt stresses that there are no "good" divorces. And, to prove this we have listened to many adult children of divorce tell their inner stories; stories they might be afraid to tell their parents for fear of hurting them or making them angry - even now as adults. Marquardt points out that we rarely hear children talk about "good" divorce; it's just the parents and the wrongly-guided social workers, judges and attorneys that frankly (this is my observation, not necessarily Marquardt's), often make a ton of money from the divorce business. Marquardt wants her readers to understand the high toll of divorce and has a BIG word to parents that are considering it: This is my paraphrase of what I believe the theme of her book is all about:

A Word to many parents - think about the children -and- don't be so selfish!

Marquardt understands that in high-conflict families and especially where physical abuse is present, divorce may be the only option if one or both parents refuse to seek help. But the surprising statistic she mentions several times in the book is that two-thirds (2/3) of divorces are from low-conflict families and many times because "we are just going down different paths."

I want to end this post with a very poignant but happy thought from one of the interviewees for the survey. Daniel, a child of divorced parents, was on vacation with his wife. When they came home, what struck him was he really was home. He actually had a home to go to and stay in. He didn't need to travel between "homes."

We had been on a trip, and I knew the only place we belonged was when we pulled into the driveway. It just felt like home, for the first time. It was a very new feeling and I was very excited.

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 9

Honor Your Father and Mother

How do children of divorce wrestle with the fifth commandment? Marquardt found this to be confusing for children of divorce more than those from intact families because divorced parents are no longer a unit. Many reported one or both parents sacrificed for them and now in adulthood they honor them for doing so. But on the other hand, infidelity, abandonment, the necessity of having to keep secrets from one or both parents seriously compromised respecting and honoring them.

Samantha had to learn about the world when her mother remarried. She was only ten years old. She says,
I don't necessarily agree with everything she's [her mother] doing. So the honor commandment becomes 'Honor, but use your best judgment.'

Alicia asks concerning the commandment,
What does that mean exactly? Honor their wishes? I don't know what that means. Everybody's honor is different. How do you honor?

As you can see, the divorce of their parents caused many of these children to be in confusion about moral, ethical and religious values.

Melissa doesn't honor her parents at all because, "I don't think they thought about the children as much as they should have. When you have a child and they're helpless and you're supposed to give your full life to them...it never occurred to me to have unending honor for them because they never had it for me."

Anthony, on the other hand, decided to honor a father he really didn't respect much but felt sorry for because that would be honoring to God.. He says,
The commandments are things we do for God, so honor your father because God told you to do it - that's how you honor God.

Steve, the born-again Christian, honors is father because of his faith. He says that if he hadn't become a Christian he would never have even thought about honoring his parents. "I can't honor God if I’m not honoring my mother and my father."

Coming Home
Marquardt, who herself comes from divorced parents does a brilliant summary IMO of the fragmentation of the person coming from a divorced family. She writes,

There is an elemental wholeness that children feel in the company of both parents, a wholeness that can only be compared to the closeness and security we seek in intimate relationships when we are adults. Yet once our parents become individuals and not a married unit, we never experienced that elemental wholeness again. For children of divorce, to gain one parent always means to lose the other. Over time we become divided, torn between two worlds. Exile is a spiritual name for our feeling of inner division. It helps explain our sense of being fragmented, spread out, scattered.
Bit exile is not the end of the story. In the Judeo-Christian tradition the faithful are assured they can come home to God....some find that a spiritual journey in the context of a faith community is both possible and healing. They discover a single identity and life story that help them make sense of their shifting and complex family histories.

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 8

One theme that I don't think is found in most of the books written about divorce's effects on children is the spiritual aspect. How do these children feel about God? And, what happens to their religious experience when they become adults? Marquardt has one entire chapter devoted to this topic as well as several of the questions in her survey. She received her Masters of Divinity from the University of Chicago where she wrote a paper called The Moral and Spiritual Experiences of Children of Divorce. At the time, she found almost no data on the topic.

"No one had looked," she says, "at how divorce in childhood shapes how children approach the biggest questions of all: Who am I? Where do I belong? What is right and wrong? What is true? Is there a God?"

She writes about this in the chapter entitled, "Child-Sized Old Souls." Christianity Today magazine asked her what she meant by child-sized old souls?

She replied, "So many grown children of divorce told me stories about not going to church anymore after the divorce. Others would talk about seeking out a church in their neighborhood by themselves in their teen years, of being alone at church. One woman recalled sitting in the back of church while kids with their parents sat up front. This passing comment was a powerful image revealing the truth that children of divorce were often relegated, even if only figuratively, to the back of the church."
I am wondering if in our churches today we have a structure to look after these children who come alone. Or, do they fall through the cracks like many of these children did? Some of those Marquardt interviewed finally just gave up on God completely in their late teens or early 20's because of the rejection at church when they were children. But on the other hand, others found God to be the sole constant and many times loving "parent" in their lives while growing up. One young man became a leader in his youth group and it saved him from going in the wrong direction.

Here are some relevant questions from her survey that especially struck me. She and Professor Glenn interviewed 1500 young adults between the ages of 18 and 35.

*Would you describe yourself as "born-again or evangelical Christian, or not?
Those answering "Yes:"

From divorced family - 41%
From intact family - 37%

Not a huge difference but that 4% difference represents 60 of the survey participants.


*Aside from weddings and funerals, how often do you attend religious services?

From divorced family
Every week/almost every week - 24%
One to three times a month - 16%

From intact family
Every week/almost every week - 35%
One to three times a month - 18%


*Are you currently a member at a place of worship?
Those answering "Yes:"

From divorced family - 48.7%
From intact family - 62.6%

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 7

Continuing the review of the book by Elizabeth Marquardt, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.

In the last post we saw the sad fact that many children of divorced families were often confronted with the need to keep secrets of one parent from the other parent. However, in intact families, this seldom occurs.

WHAT IS TRUE
In their survey, Marquardt and Glenn asked, "Do you agree or disagree with this statement: What my mother said was true and what my father said was true were often two different things?"

Those from divorced families who agreed Those from intact families who agreed
51% 20%

Why would truth become a problem AFTER the divorce? Marquardt writes,

...after a divorce some parents feel tempted to reveal the "truth" to their children. When parents are married they tend not to point out all of their spouse's mistakes or failings. They more often cover for each other and try to protect the child from learning about each other's less desirable traits. After the divorce, however, the parents no longer feel such a strong need to portray themselves as a cohesive unit, and each parent may have an interest in revealing the shortcomings of the other to help explain why the divorce occurred, or to shore up their own positions in ongoing conflicts with the other parent.

As an example, Marquardt relates an Oprah Winfrey Show where a seven-year-old boy, sitting between his divorced parents, told Oprah (and the audience),

"My dad, he tells truths. My mom tells truths, so I really don't know. I trusted my dad but he lied, and like I trusted my mom, but she lied. So I can't trust either [one]."

Protecting vs. not protecting children seems to be one strong theme in Marquardt's book. What I learned from the book was protection of the children seemed to be very important before the divorce, but afterwards it often went to the wind as the children became pawns in the parents' battle with each other. Children of divorce were often put in the middle, lied to, forced to keep secrets and often forced to choose one parent over the other one. This made me wonder how many of the 50% of Christians who divorce every year handle this. Do they also put their children through this hell? In my intact family, my parents were always trustworthy. Later when I became a Christian, trusting God was not a difficult task for me. But what about those children who are from lying families? I wonder what those childrens' conceptions of God are like ? What is the basis for trust in God for them?

In the next post, we shall see the religious life of children of divorce and what happened to their beliefs in adulthood. In fact Marquardt is probably one of the only people who has researched this particular topic with adult children of divorce.

Adult Children of Divorce - part 6

In the last post, we saw how many adult children of divorce, surveyed by Elizabeth Marquardt in her book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce, often were divided about the values, emotions, rules and general ways of doing things between both parents after the divorce. Another thing that was disturbing to me along these same lines, and Marquardt devotes a whole chapter to it, was that these poor children often had to keep secrets of one parent from the other parent.

Marquardt writes about how one parent wants to know what the other parent is doing financially, emotionally, and most important, relationship-wise. Was the other parent dating? If so, who? Children of intact families rarely are asked to reveal secrets about the other parent. This was disturbing to me as children, especially small ones, never should have to make decisions as to whether to tell a parent something about the other parent; or how much to tell.

27% of children from divorced families said they had to keep secrets while not quite 10% of children from intact families said they did.

One man surveyed said as a 12-year old boy his mother let slip to him that she was going to divorce his father. He had to keep that secret from his father and younger sisters. NO child should have this burden put upon them IMO. The reason these children felt they had to keep some things under wraps was so the other parent wouldn't become upset; or worse, become angry and take it out on the child. This 12-year old boy also said when his father started to date his future stepmother, he didn't tell his mother so as to not upset her. But when the mother found out - get this - she got angry at her son for not revealing this bit of information. His response to Marquardt in looking back at this event was, "At the time I felt like this is another thing that I'm put in the middle of."

Another side of secrets was the withholding of information from the child. Many children reported that when they visited the other parent, at times they would find they had remarried or had been in the hospital or had even moved. But the child was never told that until he pr she came to visit. Or, when the child got home, the parent he lived with had gotten remarried while the child was visiting the other parent. This is for real folks, if you can believe it. Coming from an intact family myself, I can hardly believe people do this to their children.

Here are two more questions from Marquardt's and Glenn's survey that I thought pertained to the subject of keeping secrets.

*I felt the need to protect my mother emotionally
From a divorced family From an intact family
Agree 52% 32%

*I felt the need to protect my father emotionally
From a divorced family From an intact family

Agree 29% 18%

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 5

We are looking at Elizabeth Marquardt's book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce.

Where Do I Belong?
This seems to be a big problem with adult children of divorce. Of course, it's the question every teen probably asks, but doubly so for those from divorced families. Do I belong to one parent more than the other? Do I look like one parent than the other? Will this cause problems when I visit with the other parent, especially if there are hostile feelings between the parents? Do I function ; have the interests; the same goals more like one parent? Marquardt points out that children really should not have to answer these type of questions. However, that is what divorce does. It creates a completely different and often perplexing environment for the children. Children of divorce ask what their parents are thinking and believing so they might do or think the "right thing" depending on which parent they are with. Of course, when the family was intact, the children seldom thought of these things.

Under the banner of marriage parents announce and practice their unity to the children and to the world, unless the marriage is terribly dysfunctional. But divorced parents tend to announce their separateness as a way to tough it out through the divorce. The danger in this, Marquardt writes, is to require children to confront confusing moral problems at a young age with little or no unity or often guidance from their divorced parents. Instead of being immersed in their own worlds, where children should be, often children of divorced families must be immersed in their parents' separate lives and problems. In other words, instead of the world of the family revolving around their needs, it often revolves around each divorced parent's needs. This is selfish. Marquardt points out that often children of divorce have to actually study each parents' world to understand how they fit into it. If the parent remarries, that adds to the difficulty as once again, that parents' world changes and the child must now adapt to the new world of the remarried parent.

And once again Marquardt asks the question - are there really any "good" divorces?

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 4

We are looking at Elizabeth Marquardt's book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. One thing she spends time on in the book is how parents of intact families work to forge common rules, moral values, religion, and so forth. But when they part in divorce, there are often two sets of rules, moral values, religions, etc. Many children of divorce reported that they had to wrestle with two sets of rules, values, food and ways of doing things between the two homes. This of course created confusion fear and often anger in the children. Married parents must find ways to forge these things together. But when they divorce, parents can go back to their ways of doing things. And if they remarry, then they might have to reforge these things with the new spouse. Meanwhile, the children must keep adapting to each home. This is unfair to children to contend with, especially small ones.

Many of the adult children of divorce reported that their father was the disciplinarian in the family, but after the divorce, since dad wasn't around much, the children did mostly what they wanted. That reminds me of Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

In divorce there is a tendency for the parents to force their children to take care of the parents' feelings that result from the divorce. Children must also choose which set of rules to follow, and even which parent to live with. This is too much and too intense for children to handle, especially small ones. Some of the adults surveyed by Marquardt and Glenn remember as small children the agony of being asked which parent they wanted to live with. Can you imagine the horrible trauma that resulted for these children? On the other hand, older children were resentful when they were not included in that decision. Many reported they felt they were betraying the parent whose rules or values they weren't embracing; or, betraying the parent they didn't live with, whether they had a choice in that decision or not.

I believe Marquardt rightly asks the important question, "Are there really any 'good' divorces?

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 3

We are reviewing the book by Elizabeth Marquardt, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. Marquardt writes that the effects of divorce don't necessarily mean the children will end up on drugs or in jail. Outwardly they may look and truly be very successful, but inside they often have a lot of confusion and hurt.

So what is a "good" divorce as defined by social workers, judges and other professionals involved with children of divorce? Marquardt tells a story that was in the Washington Post. A husband and wife divorced because she was troubled by their lack of connection. But they have a great divorce situation for the children - that is, according to them. The father comes to his ex's house each morning to get the three girls ready for school. Every morning he reassures the girls that althoguh he and their mother aren't married anymore, they are still there for them and love them. But Marquardt slams reality into this pretty fairy tale picture, and here is the reality. What happens if the spouses begin to date others? What happens if one or both spouses remarry? Will daddy then come by every morning? How will mother's new husband feel about that? What if they have children by their new spouses? And, what if one parent gets a great job offer far away and moves? According to Marquardt, those judges and social workers who are sold on the "good divorce" theory don't want to listen.

Other social scientists have done studies that show the ill effects of divorce on some children. For example, E. Mavis Hetherington found that 20-25% of children of divorce have long-term damage. But these kind of studies can also be misleading as the reader falsely assumes the other 75-80% are fine. This is precisely why Marquardt wrote this book - to tell us that the majority of that 75-80% may not suffer horrendous damage, but damage they do exerience. Other researchers, such as Judith Wallerstein, have found what is called the "sleeper effect." That is, the symptoms of divorce don't show up until after the child leaves home as an adult and tries to form long lasting relationships, especially in marriage.

Marquardt wishes to change the questions that are asked by researchers on this subject to the following ones:
*How do children of divorce make sense of their parents' different beleifs, values, and ways of living when their parents no longer must confront these differences themselves [because now they aren't together].
*How do the feelings of loss and loneliness, so widespread in the lives of children of divorce, affect their spiritual journeys?
*How might divorce divide and shape the inner lives of many children, even those who appear to be successful later in life.

In the next few days, we'll look at Marquardt's survey results answering these questions and even look at some of the most interesting questions and their results.

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 2

In our last post we looked at the book by Elizabeth Marquardt, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. Briefly, Marquardt attempts to refute long-held popular theories that there are "good" divorces where children come out just fine with no collateral damage. Some of Marquardt's findings are startling but certainly understandable. For example, one common theme in the book is the amount of independence children of divorce must acquire just to exist. One woman interviewed in the book who was not a child of divorce remarked,

"When I grew up a lot of children of divorce did things on their own that I never would have done because they didn't have the protective nest around them."

Another factor seems to be a sense of no home. Most of these children had to traverse between two homes and often they didn't really feel comfortable in either one. One was "mother's home" and the other one was "father's home." But there was never "our home." Rebecca Walker, daughter of the writer, Alice Walker writes,

"I am more comfortable in airports than either of the houses I call home."

This is because she often had to fly to see her dad when he had visitation.

A third effect of divorce is a loss of truthfulness for the children. Marquardt gives many examples of children who had to constatnly lie to their parents about what the other parent was doing in their lives to avoid hurt on all sides. Marquardt correctly and adamantly states that no child should ever have to be put into a position where they don't have a nurturing nest, don't have a sense of home and have to lie to "protect" the other parent. She calls this abuse.
And I concur - it certainly is.

You may read Part 1 of this series here.

Adult Children of Divorce - Part 1

1/3 of divorces are a result of high conflict marriages - those where there is abuse or other very serious quarreling. The children of these marriages are slightly better off (not a lot better off) after the divorce. However, the other 2/3's of divorces are from low-conflict problem marriages. How do the children of these marriages fare after the divorce?

This is the thesis of one of the best books I've read recenty. In fact, the reason I read it was because I wanted to understand what it's like coming from divorced parents. Happily, I am from what this book calls "an intact home." That means my parents did not divorce. In fact, they never wanted to divorce as they seemed to enjoy being with each other. But today, as I read about, and talk to people both on the Internet and in person, I think I might be in a minority. It seems too, too many Christians are from troubled and even horrible families. So, when I saw an interview in "Christianity Today" magazine with Elizabeth Marquardt about her book, Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce, I decided I had to read it.

I will be doing a series of reviews about the book. In this first post , I want to give you an overview of why it was written, who wrote it and what it's about. Then in subsequent posts, we shall look more closely at some of the chapters. The book really helped me understand what's going on with some of you.

Between Two Worlds is a result of a unique study done by Marquardt and Dr. Norval Glenn of the University of Texas at Austin. They did a survey of successful young adult children of divorced parents. The reason for this selection was to refute critics who insist that most children of divorce are very happy and doing quite well. The authors found these adults doing well career-wise and many of them also doing as well as can be expected emotionally, but not necessarily having worked out basic inner problems resulting from their families' divorce.

The authors did a 125-question survey of adult children of divorce. I will share some of these questions and the results in future posts. The answers to many of these questions showed a real disconnect between many studies done by the so-called experts about how children of divorce really feel. These "experts" tell us there are "good" and "bad" divorces and that it's possible in the "good" divorces for the children to be very happy and well-adjusted. Marquardt and Glenn disagree with this view. They state unequivocally there are no good divorces. In fact, according to them, children who come from divorced low-impact problem marriages actually fare worse than those children of low-impact problem marriages that stay together. Prior studies on this subject seem to concentrate on the outward happiness and behavior while Marquardt and Glenn concentrated on the adult child's inner life.

Here are the stats:
Today, 25% of young adults in the United States between 18 and 25 are from divorced parents.

Stay tuned for more posts on this important book.

Ingrid over at Slice of Laodicea has written a post that I could have written. For a time now I have asked basically the same questions she asks about house churches. I know those in them think they are the best thing since cream cheese. However, in my research, and in talking to people online who are in these groups, I never hear the answers to the questions she asks.


From her blog:

1. Who is in charge? Ultimately someone will decide what doctrine will be taught.

2. Who conducts church discipline as outlined in Scripture or is discipline thrown out the window?

3. Who adminsters the Lord's Supper and Baptism?

4. Do most home churches not become mini-versions of their institutional counterparts?

These questions aren't implied criticisms, but genuine questions about how home churches are handled.

Anyone out there wish to answer these questions and help us understand how these groups work?

A Great Post from Steve Camp

From Steven Camp's blog.

Holding Pastors Accountable

1. Edify Through Prayer (1 Timothy 2:1-3)

2. Examine Their Message (Acts 17:11-12)

3. Encourage Godly Character (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-8)

4. Entreat Their Shepherding (Hebrews 13:17)

Question: When was the last time you received a phone call, a letter or note, an impromptu visit from the pastors/elders of your church when there was no crisis and without you prompting it in anyway whatsoever? Sadly, I would say for most people the answer would be never. Failure in ministry usually occurs at the most fundamental levels and this is without question the weakest link in the chain for any church leadership.

5. Exhort the Unfaithful (1 Timothy 5:19-21)

My answer to #4 is NEVER in 40 years of going to church. Of course, a lot of that is me being single. But the singles' thing and how we're treated in churches, methinks, will be another post.

Chuck Smith Jr. (son of senior Chuck - who started Calvary Chapel churches) sets up prayer stations in his church, as do many other emergent pastors. His prayer station in April, 2005 was complete with candles, incense and icons. and featured an instruction sheet to assist church attendees in how to pray with an icon. The instructions stated:

Praying With Icons

*Draw in a slow deep breath. As you do pray, Holy Spirit surround me,fill me, breathe life into me.
*Empty your mind of all anxiety.
*Empty your heart full of desire except for God.
*Focus on one icon and imagine what that person might say to you about God, yourself, and others
*Read the icons as if the person who painted it wanted to send a
message to you. Notice the details.
*The icon is there to remind you of God: to make you conscious of His
presence, all around you.
*Pray in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
*(option) Cross yourself as you say these words.

(Source: Roger Oakland)

Does this remind you of anything? Perhaps New Age beliefs?
And you wonder why I am having some trouble with emergent????

A Few Good Men (and some women too)

More and more I'm seeing some sane theological viewpoints coming out of a few of the younger evangelicals, especially in the blogosphere.

After my rant on the Baby Boomers (Grow Up!), I have some good news to report. It seems that quite a few younger types, mostly young men in their late 20's, 30's and early 40's are making sense. Many of them are Calvinists and some are Calvinist Charismatics, which is most interesting to me. Many of the former are the Sovereign Grace people and scads of them have their own blogs, such as Scott over at Exhibiting the Value of Knowing God. I don't know how old Justin Taylor, the new "head" of the SG churches is, but I don't think he is that old.

And then of course, in a class all by himself, is Tim Challies.

And, Bob is over at TotemtoTemple.

Fortuntely, some of the younger set, aka postmoderns, are seeing the problems with seeker sensitive and emergent theology. I read Tim Wirth's blog daily, Simply Agape and also Jim Bublitz of Old Truth.com, although I enjoy Jim's comments on Ingrid's Slice of Laodicea more than his blog, especially after he nitpicked and skewered poor Dan Edelen.

And that brings me to Dan. As you can probably tell from reading my blog, one of the highlights of my day is reading Dan Edelen's blog, Cerulean Sanctum.

I do read women's blogs but the women seem to be older. I'm looking for younger ones whose theology isn't airheaded. I guess my problem is - I don't know ages. It might be that Carla (Emergent No) is under 45...I don't know. I also read her blog daily. I'm sure there are others...I just don't know them.

Anyhow, as long as these folks are blogging and some even in leadership, we might have reason to hope.