I'm going to take a short break from all things emergent and then really go into its philosophy and the relationship to the mostly atheistic postmodern philosophers over the weekend. I think you will be fascinated by my research and reading this last year.
I don't know if many of you are into the "prophetic." By that term I am mainly talking about Charismatic "prophetic," not dispensational-Revelation-last days prophetic. We seem to have a "war" of sorts going on between two prophetic movements. One has people like David Wilkerson and Andrew Strom. The other one is mainly from the Third Wave Charismatic camp.
First, here is what the Wilkerson-Strom camp has been saying lately,
From Andrew Strom's prophetic list, (you can find this here), we are seeing more of the following type of prophecy. This was sent out on Nov. 8, 2007. Here is part of it,
Actually, according to all the data that I have seen, the dollar situation is not even the worst of the problems. There is a global Credit Crunch underway - affecting giant banks and Investment companies the worst - and every day we are getting news of MULTI-BILLION dollar write-downs. All of this its effects are being felt worldwide. -And it is growing worse.
This Credit crisis by itself actually threatens the entire SYSTEM -no exaggeration. And it is already underway - NOW. Many international banks are in crisis mode already - but how long it takes to reach "Main Street" is difficult to know. There is already some fallout. For instance, giant retailers such as Wal-Mart reported yesterday their worst October in over a decade. But this is just the beginning of sorrows.
As one commentator put it today.....the major investment banks are marching in lock-step towards bankruptcy..."
The "D-WORD" that I mentioned in the title of this article is, of course, the word "DEPRESSION". I continue to stand by my statement of many months ago that within 3 years this nation will be in a terrible financial depression - possibly the worst that it has ever seen. Right now, things are right on track to see this fulfilled.
The answer to this question mostly lies in one word - "GREED". There has been an absolute orgy of Greed in this country - from the Investment Bankers selling shady Mortgage-Backed Securities to the condo flippers and Real Estate Appraisers and "Junk Bond" specialists and "Liar's Loan" officers. And what is left is an absolute mountain-pile of shameful, unethical financial garbage - which nobody is willing to swallow any more.
GREED is the word. At the end of the day, all of this has been for the love of the Almighty Dollar.
In fact, even CHRISTIAN AMERICANS love the Almighty dollar so much that they are willing to make up ENTIRE DOCTRINES to prove that God loves money just as much as they do. It is a new kind of gospel - never seen in the history of the world before. The Americans invented it and spread it around the earth. And now, even in REVIVAL COUNTRIES, this gospel of greed is taking over. Carter Conlon says that he was in a poor African nation recently where there are 700,000 little children living without parents on the streets - and yet the PASTORS ARE DRIVING BMW's and preaching SELFISH PROSPERITY. Where did they get such sickness? -They got it from America. We beam it to them live by satellite.
And this is why I believe God is about to make an EXAMPLE of the USA. -He has to. All the nations follow her lead. The entire church worldwide looks to her for guidance. And she has become a center of corruption and spiritual sickness almost without precedent in the history of the world. She has made the whole earth "drunk" with her fornications, her movies, her MTV, her music, her rebellion, her love of money. And so I am convinced that God is about to make an 'example' of her before all nations. He cannot have a "Christian" country spreading such things in the earth.
When I am in Nigeria again this February I plan to preach this very thing. -That God is making an example of America so that all the nations will fear. -That this is what happens when you follow a creed of "God wants me rich", of pleasure-seeking, materialism,
selfishness and greed. -That God is about to demonstrate to the whole earth what will happen to such a nation. Do you think He is just going to stand by and watch us ruin His Revivals forever?
God has a controversy with you, America. He is girding Himself up for war. I hope you are ready to find out what it is like to get yourself on God's "wrong side".
Enjoy the coming Christmas, America. It may be your last really enjoyable one for a very long time.
And here is what David Wilkerson said in his newsletter I received today,
The past few months we have been receiving an increasing number of letters and writings from our readers about dreams and visions concerning judgements on America. Some of these we discount immediately because thy are unscriptural and obviously disoriented ramblings. But what we are now receiving cannot be discounted.
It appears that the Holy Spirit is speaking to many godly people about impending disaster on our land. They all see and hear the same message: something is coming soon that will forever change the way we live. These readers are not alarmists; they are intelligent, praying people who love America but have been shaken by what they have envisioned. None of them claim to be prophets, but are simply housewives, laymen, pastors of small churches - unknown ordinary people upon whom the Holy Spirit is moving in a prophetic way.
Now, we go to the opposite - the Third Wave prophets. To be fair, a few have warned a little bit about disaster on America, but they usually say if we pray and fast we shall be fine. An example of this type of prophet is Kim Clement. I have been collecting his prophecies (via the Elijah list), for the past several years. Here are snippets from them that discuss what we've been talking about here. You can find many of his recent prophecies for yourselves at his website here. One reason I've collected his prophetic words is because I am curious to see if they come to pass. Many really believe they do. But I find most of them very vague and several interpretations could be applied.
Most of his prophetic words, and this is true of many Third Wavers, follows the theme - God is going to raise up health, prosperity, success for the land, renewal, revival, and so forth.
From Oct. 28, 2006:
"Prophesy, prophesy, prophesy to America! Prophesy, prophesy, prophesy to America!" God says, "Open up your mouth and shout, 'Freedom, liberty, life, salvation, deliverance, America come alive! Shout!"
""I will give you oil, and more oil, and more oil," but God said, "what shall come forth from this Nation, will make you independent, and you shall send the Gospel throughout the earth again as you did before," says the Lord."
From Sept. 23, 2006:
"A Host of Angels Are Coming to This Nation
God says, "Let the trumpet sound. I will make a way for you. There's an angel I have sent to listen to you. There's an angel I have sent to listen to your prayers. There is a Host I have sent to this nation. They are listening to you. There's a host of angels that I have commanded that are coming into this nation at this time. There's an angel assigned to you and is listening to you. They have heard the sound of life. They have heard the sound of love."
"There's an angel I have sent to you tonight with a call. It's the call of Isaiah. It's the call that Isaiah felt on his lips. There's a fire of the Holy Ghost I have sent to you. The nation of America will rejoice as the victory is near, not far, but it's near. There's an angel sent just for you. There's another I have sent, something is in his hands for every one of you," says the Lord. "
The Best Years of Our Life Are Upon Us
The mantle of Elijah has come. It has come for your children to hear, for your children to know that something unusual is about to happen. For your children to know that the best years of their life are upon them. There's a Holy, Holy shaking. Your children's children, they will know that the best years of their life is upon them." God says, "The mantle of Elijah has been released. The portion has come upon this generation. The best years of our life are upon us. I want every one of you to know that I will keep My Word. Tonight as you stand before Me, as you take the call of fire. I will make you aware of My Presence today. I am touching your soul, your hearts, and your families."
From March 3, 2007:
"But God said, "This is the month of March. I am taking women and children," and God said, "there will be one of the greatest revivals ever in this Nation," says the Spirit of God. "I am taking fathers and sons and joining them together to bring forth the spirit of Elijah back to this Nation. Which is what?
God said, "The truth--will break the power of idols; break the power of idols. They will be torn down," because God says, "I have promised in the month of March, the beginning of great favor." And for the people that would want this, allow God to hear your voices, for great favor is coming to you in this month of March.
"They have laughed and they have said, 'You have lost your light, you have lost your oil, and you have lost your salt, America.' But allow this prophet to tell you--What is about to take place in this Nation will frighten to the ends of the earth."
For God said, "What discoveries will happen this year. This year," God says, "so great shall be the discoveries that the economic revival will be so vast, that they will look at you and say, 'What happened overnight? What happened to this Nation overnight?" Over one night everything will change. You say, 'I have heard this before.'"
God said, "I have a promise in the year 2007 and in the year 2008, to bring America back to its lofty position on its knees. No, I will not humiliate you," says the Lord. "But if you will give Me your children and you give Me your families, I will take you and make you an example of the greatest favor. I will cause you to be debt-free. I want you to be debt-free. I want to clear your burden of debt," says the Lord. "I want to clear your burden of sin. I want to give you salt, oil, and light."
From April 4, 2007:
"And in the month of May and October of this year, I will grant an unusual amount of favor. I will grant an unusual amount of favor not only to the Church but into this Nation, for the rain shall come upon the just and the unjust. For suddenly, there will be a rapidity, there will be a movement that shall happen so quickly that they shall say, 'We did not bring birth or give birth to this. No man will take credit for this that is about to happen." God said, "It shall be like Elijah, where there was no proof of his birth or of his beginning and no proof of his death." God said, "This that I will do, shall give no man credit, for it shall be the most unusual thing,"
[Note: I am trying to think what favor we've seen last month since he said this October-2007 we would see favor on America as we've not seen recently. Frankly, it seems to me that both the Church and this Nation has really been dissed recently. Perhaps I am missing something here?]
Also from April 4:
"America, America, you are the salt of the earth. America, America, you are the light of the world!" The Spirit of God says, "As you sing these words, surely, I will remember the promises that were made on the steps of the Capitol," though now abandoned, and though now forgotten, God said, "I will not forget. And I will bring to this Nation what it deserves. For in 2009, you will say, 'This is the beginning and will never end.' Therefore, rejoice, for whatever you see tonight, I will give it to you," says the Spirit of God."
From July 14, 2007:
"I will bring peace to this nation as it has never ever experienced. Do not fear, your borders are protected, your schools are protected, your children are protected, your jets are protected, your air space is protected, your seas are protected, your land is protected, My people are protected. For this day, the God of the universe hears your praise and sends the fire of God to Pakistan. It is time for the exposure says the Spirit of the Living God. Rejoice America, your restoration has begun. Now I will pay back," says the Spirit of the Lord, "for vengeance is mine. I will pay back your enemies by putting you on the top; economically I will drive you back to the highest place, as I do what I'm going to do with your energy crisis. You will have the Middle East come to you and say 'Will you share with us what you have discovered?'"
From Sept. 1, 2007:
The Spirit of God says, "Hear the words that come from My heart. America has endured much agony and much pain. This nation has caused life to come even though death may call." Now God says, "You are about to enter a season of peace, as I have said before, but I shall begin with My people. It is the end of tears. It is the end of war. It is the end of a season and now grace has begun. Understand when I say it is your time, then it is your time," says the Lord."
And to end, I thought this was an interesting prophecy from Clement on
Dec. 31, 2006:
"Men and women who have longed to go into the marketplace, fear not, do not fear anymore; the marketplace has been opened up says the Lord of Hosts. NASDAQ, NASDAQ you have now risen to a place where you are prideful, but God says this is a sign, for the economy of this nation shall rise above and shall begin to dictate to the nations of the earth. The strength of the dollar shall come because of the strength of the spiritual life in this nation. Watch Me take possession of Wall Street says the Spirit of the Lord."
Clement has recently prophesied earthquakes in California and kind of vaguely the fires we've had. He also seemed to prophesy the flood in New Orleans, so at times he can be right on, but as I read these, I feel they are vague and then later interpreted by those sympatico to him as a fulfillment. For example, he talked about the word evacuation but didn't relate it to anything. Then after the California fires, many including Clement felt it was probably concerning the fire evacuations. But, in the OT and the NT I see much more specific prophesies.
Francis Frangipane seems to agree with Clement. In several articles he says God will not bring a judgement against us because He needs us too much for overseas missions. I really do hate to put Frangipane in the Third Wave category but he seems to constantly drift over there.
And the Wilkerson-Strom group IMO have more specific ones. On the other hand, Wilkerson has been prophesying a Great Depression in America since he published his book, The Vision in 1971. And, Strom has been prophesying similar things for years.
So, I leave it up to you to decide what to do with these.