Baptism Snafu

There seems to be a lot of discussion and dissension in the blogosphere lately about baptism. Specifically, should infants be baptised? Well as a good Presbyterian and not a Baptist I say a resounding NO! Oops. Maybe I am getting mixed up. As a current Presbyterian that should be the other way around shouldn't it. But, it isn't. Just don't tell my fellow Presbies please. I cannot for the life of me understand how infant baptism came into being. Yes, I've read about it from the Reformational point of view and it still doesn't make sense to me. I don't read anywhere in the New Testament where babies get baptised. I must take my doctrinal cues from the Bible or I will get too far out of bounds from where God is. That is my credo. That is what I try live by.

The whole purpose of baptism is to identify with Christ and His new life in you AFTER you receive Him and become born again. So then, how can someone get baptized BEFORE they are born again? I don't get it. Do you?

Atonement Theories and their Importance

As I've said before here, Michael Horton is one of my favorite theologians, even if he is a Reformationist hyper-Calvinist. Although I am only slightly over in that camp, he often makes a lot of sense to me. Here are snippets from his latest article in Modern Reformation magazine (September/October issue).

He goes into the various atonement theories and I believe really provides clear and understandable definitions. I think it's important today to understand how the various evangelical movements are following some of these theories instead of the Reformationist penal substitutionary atonement.

He writes that,

[ substitutionary atonement] "it is no longer conceivable that God became flesh to bear His own just wrath."

[moral influence theory] "the purpose of the cross is to move us to repentance by showing us how much God loves us."

[moral government theory] "to display God's justice"

[Christus Victor theory] "to liberate the oppressed from unjust social structures."

[ransom atonement theory] There is one Horton did not cover where Jesus was given as a ransom to satan for us.

We might be reminded of Steve Chalke's declaration that the penal substitution theory is "cosmic child abuse." Yes, the penal substitution theory is certainly being attacked today. The Liberal Protestants, and now many of the emergents and seeker-sensitives, put forth the moral influence theory and that is the one I grew up with. And did I receive Christ as a result of it? No. And why didn't I? Because Romans 10:14 is always in play. It basically says that if you don't hear the gospel you cannot believe it. And if no one tells you how can you hear it? And did I hear it in my Liberal Protestant church? No. And is that why I did not, and could not accept it? Yes. And when did I finally become a Christian? When I sat next to a Baptist girl in a college class and she told me the atonement story. The true atonement story that is. So then, are many emergents and seeker-sensitive congregants hearing the gospel in order to receive Christ? Well, if they are hearing the moral influence theory which is what many are hearing, I don't think they will be able to become Christians. This is a hotly debated subject right now - that is, how much gospel do you need to hear to really become a real born-again Christian?

What do you think?

Well, It's Laugh Time Again in the ECUSA

As I was reading my Los Angeles Times today, I came across an article with the byline that the ECUSA (Episcopalians) were going to "try" to not ordain homosexuals as bishops. "Try?" So there is some force that compels this to happen and they will try not to give into it? Ha-ha-ha. That is really kind of funny. Actually, the wording of what they put together says that they will "exercise constraint" in consecrating another gay bishop. And how about ordaining homosexual and lesbian priests? Not a word about that.

By the way, I am not dissing the homosexual community. I have a real respect for them and what they go through daily. We have several living in my condo complex and frankly, we would like more as they are very nice and excellent home owners. I count one as a real friend and invited him along with my other friends to Christmas dinner last Christmas at my place. But I am talking about what is happening in churches today. As Paul said, outside the church what people do is their business. But what happens in church leadership, as a member of the Body of Christ - is my business. And yours.

The Three-Legged Stool

I believe I received a picture from God. No, I'm not one of those flaky prophet people. I am an unflaky prophet people....LOL.

OK..so here is the picture and I believe passionately it describes a near-perfect church and what should be happening in every evangelical church.

Picture a three-legged stool. I am very art-challenged and cannot draw anything, but for you, my reader, I will try. Here is my attempt.

__________
(_ __ __ __)
| | |
| | |


*The first leg is the theological leg. What a church believes. This leg MUST have as it's foundation justification by grace, faith and Christ alone and the substitutionary atonement. How penal it becomes is up to each church although I have to admit the emphasis on hell is not something I ever see in the book of Acts when the apostles are evangelizing. In fact it might even be called a manipulative technique in many cases. I don't mind hell mentioned as long as it doesn't take up 9/10 of the sermon.

*The second leg of the stool is sanctification. This is done by teaching, especially from the gospels and epistles and ALLOWING the Holy Spirit to deal with each person. Legalism does NOT produce proper Biblical sanctification and that has been a real probelm in the past although I don't see it much today. But it still has a lot of reverberatons in people's lives.

*The third leg has two parts - evangelism and what has been called the social gospel. In other words, reaching out to others to help them. Gladly, most present evangelistic methods are relational instead of the old "hit-and-run" type. It is relational in the sense of getting to know people and listening to their "story." Then you earn the right to share yours.

The second and third legs cannot come about until the first one is securely in place. And the third leg cannot happen until the second one is in place.

When we look at evangelicalism in the past, often the three legs were not all in tact. For example, the fundamentalists after a while began to misunderstand how the second leg of sanctification happens outside of legalism. And also with the fundamentalists and later with most of the evangelicals, the helping others part of the third leg was almost non-existent.

In the emergent village the first leg has BIG problems with some of the emergents as does the second one. But they have the third leg pretty squared away.

So why can't we get all three legs together in tact? I never could understand that. But now we MUST do this task for the future of the church and Christianity in general.

The Gospel and the City -- Tim Keller

I take two polls online each week. For one I get rewarded with neat stuff. For the other one, I am entered into a contest for neat stuff or cash. On one I took last week they wanted to know if I lived in a urban, surburban or rural town. I had to think about that for a while because 25 years ago at around 40,000-50,000 people it was definitely a surburb of Los Angeles and always has been. But now it has reached 210,000 and is very diverse. So I don't think it is surburban anymore. But I'm not sure it's urban either. However, my missional church thinks we are urban. So I checked "urban" on the survey.

Since I now live in an urban area I took interest in a two-part series by pastor Tim Keller of Reedemer Presyterian Church in New York City, who I would call a missional more than an emergent (he attracts many age groups and has a very PCA Calvinistic theology). He has written articles on the theology of the city and ministry in the new global culture. At Mark Driscol's blog, Resurgence, Keller writes a two-part series. In the first part he defines the city and its purposes and what it holds for people. Then he deals with how sin breaks up the city. His writing reminded me of Augustine's the City of God vs. the City of Man and, as St. Paul said, to live in the city [world] but not be of it. In part 2 he goes into what the gospel is and what it should do in and for the city. I highly recommend this two-part series from pastor Keller. The links, which are from Mark Driscoll's Resurgence blog, are below.

Part 1

Part 2

Quote of the Week

"The stronger you insist on the necessity of tolerance, the more intolerant you become toward those who disagree. The moral lesson is that there is no such thing as unqualified tolerance; ultimately, one must be able to expound intolerance of certain ideologies without surrendering the moral high ground normally linked to tolerance."

Judea Pearl, father of slain journalist Daniel Pearl

Yep - the Two Revivals

I guess I could have said "I told you so." When I first started this blog in the summer of 2004, I posted mostly about the Third Wave Charismatic revival movement (think Toronto and Brownsville). Since then I have morphed into discussing the emergents and at times the seeker-sensitives. But at times I need to revisit the Third wavers. Bryan Huperts has written an article which is excellent and voices much of my own thoughts about this movement. Also, Hank Hanegraff, in his book Counterfeit Revival, says so many good things about this. By the way, the second edition of that book which came out ten years after Toronto, is even better than the first edition.

So here is the entire article by Bryan Hupperts. Right on Bryan!

"Given Over To Delusion
Bryan Hupperts
Sep 19, 2007

Have you ever looked in a teenager's closet or under their bed? The layers
are like an archaeological dig. After my kids cleaned their rooms, I decided
to do a surprise detailed inspection. 5 hours and 6 bags to trash later, I
believe I have dispelled their delusions of what "clean" means! There is
some housecleaning desperately needed in the body of Christ, too.

A delusion is a false belief that is stronger than mere illusion because you
are accepting a lie as the Truth. All the world over, the church of Jesus
Christ is experiencing spiritual delusion.

Consider the words of Pastor Mike Woelk: "The Church is like Jesus was on
earth, never something to detract from, or take glory from, the Father. When
it does, it is not the Church." When the focus is off God, you are on
slippery ground.

In these days there is a winnowing, a separation, taking place between the
sheep and goats. God is sifting the hearts of people to find those who are
fully his.

We've had waves of bizarre laughter manifesting in church meetings, people
barking and growling like animals, jewels and gold dust appearing and
disappearing, manna falling; wild things happening. These manifestations are
real. Is God behind this?

Try quoting the following passage to people involved in these sort of
meetings. The usual response is, 'That's your onion.' No, this is God's
Word. Let's take a look at the warning foretold about the deceptive nature
of the miraculous in the End Times.

2 Thessalonians 2: 9-12. "The coming of the lawless one will be in
accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit
miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those
who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so
be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they
will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed
the truth but have delighted in wickedness." NIV

"The work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and
wonders." First, the Scripture acknowledges COUNTERFIT miracles, COUNTERFIT
signs, and COUNTERFIT wonders. These supernatural things are labelled, "The
work of Satan."

A counterfeit is designed to look and pass for the genuine thing. Satan is
not a creator so he is limited to counterfeiting the Father's work. The
stated purpose of these fakes is to "Deceive those who are perishing." The
deceived here are perishing because "They refuse to love the truth." They
will be eternally condemned.

But won't God protect his children? Yes, if they seek him with all their
hearts. For those who do not love the truth, 'God sends them a powerful
delusion so that they will believe the lie.'

What kind of a delusion? A powerful one. Who sends this powerful delusion
that seals their eternal fate? God Himself!

Why? There are two comings, two parousia in the last days: one of Christ,
and the other of antichrist. We're warned of, 'The coming of the lawless
one.' The devil is going to have his day on earth to harvest those who do
not love the Truth. And, as judgment begins at the house of God, it is
coming in the form of spiritual delusion in the Church! Who claims
responsibility for sending this delusion? God Himself.

The current crop of spiritual delusion gets billed as: the new anointing,
greater revelation, new levels, deeper truth: more and more! We are to fix
our eyes on Jesus, not on manifestations or on seemingly anointed prophets
who merchandise this spiritual sideshow.

If you've even been in these meetings, ever notice how little they speak
about Jesus? God does not share his glory with man and He who is a consuming
fire, He whose name is Jealous, is burning hot with holy anger.

Deuteronomy 13 carries a dire warning about prophets who offer up the
miraculous that turns attention and worship away from God. 'The LORD your
God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and
with all your soul.' The bizarre manifestations taking place across the
world are a test that God is proctoring. There is no grading curve. It will
finally be either Pass or Fail.

The work of Satan is being displayed in COUNTERFIT miracles, signs, and
wonders. If you do not love The Truth, you will finally believe the lie and
be condemned along with those who love wickedness. Give yourself fully to
God or you will be finally, fully given over to powerful delusion.

God is a miracle working, healing, supernatural God. He calls himself by
many names including The Truth. It is receiving the love of The Truth, Jesus
Christ himself, that saves.

Matthew 24:24, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform
great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible."
The Truth himself warned us these people were coming and would perform
COUNTERFIT signs and wonders in our midst. If supernatural manifestations
are not attesting to the Lordship of Jesus, or they give glory to the vessel
and detract from Christ, they are a COUNTERFIT.

As the poet A.E. Housman so prophetically warned, 'The house of delusion is
cheap to build but drafty to live in.' All houses built upon the shifting
sands of spiritual delusion will finally fall."

Copyright C Bryan Hupperts 1996-2007

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We're on the Move

Christian evangelicals are on the move--but in ways the secular world has no clue about. Let's examine some of them.

First of all, evangelicals are getting more relational in their evangelism instead of the old "hit-and-run" technique. In the new evangelism you actually get to know the person first. Then you allow the Holy Spirit to open up the conversation. This happened to me not long ago when I had lunch with a 90-year old Jewish woman from one of my free senior Life-Long learning classes that are sponsored by my city. This particular class is called "Contemporary Issues" and is really a lot of fun. I am one of the youngest at 63. Most of the class is over 70 and boy are they smart and well-informed. We sit around and discuss international, national and sometimes state (California) issues. The teacher is more of a moderator. The class regards me as the resident evangelical. Most people out here (So. Cal) haven't met a real evangelical so I am a rare bird to them. They always tell me I am "different" than the ones they see on TV. Well, I hope so since the ones they show in the mainstream media are usually from a small town in the South (or at times the Midwest), with teeth missing and look like 3rd grade dropouts. I try to tell the class that what they see on TV is gross prejudice and propaganda on the part of the media, but they won't believe me since most of them are PBS and NPR listeners. Well, back to the lunch with the lady. She asked me why in the world a smart person like me would be a Christian evangelical. So I gave her my testimony. A seed planted. That is what missional is about. I didn't whip out the Four Laws (although if she had asked further I would have formed my comments around them). I just was a witness as Acts 1:8 instructs me. It doesn't say there "TO witness." It says to "BE A witness."

On another front, the Christian Right is a-dyin' and the Christian Left is arisin'. I find it amusing that the main stream media is in a quandary because they agree with much of what the Christian Left stands for but they don't know what to do with the evangelical part of it. So they are at the present ignoring the movement. But I don't think they will be able to do that for long. By the way, I don't agree with most of the Christian Left, but I find the situation amusing.

The third area where the secular populace doesn't have a clue is in the NEW Christian college and university movement. Philosophy is the NEW Christian college thing. For example, Biola is really making headlines within the philosophy community (as well as Calvin Colelge). The philosophy professors of the secular colleges know what's happening but not other parts of the society. They still think we are stupid. Boy, are they in for a surprise. Here is a good LINK to read about what's happening at Biola and how they are placing their Master's degree students into extremely prestigious programs at top secular universities. The first grads are now getting jobs at secular university philosophy departments. These PhD candidates are bringing in a more Christian and theistic worldview and very few will know what is happening until it hits. I cannot believe the stupidity of so-called liberal intelligent educated people when it comes to evangelicals. They are utterly out to lunch.

At Liberty University, Jerry Fallwell's school, they have developed a top-notch debate team that has won against such prestigious secular schools as University of Pennsylvania. And so it goes.....and the secular liberal educated elites don't have a clue.

But someday it will all coalesce and hit them hard. This is soooo funny...:)

Can We Change Societies?

Does Christianity change societies like it changes individuals? In November Jollyblogger had an interesting post entitled, One More Thought on the Transformation of Society.

He wrote,
Every Christian I know believes that the gospel changes the lives and destinies of individuals. But many think we go too far if we teach that God changes the lives and destinies of societies. It seems that most of us can accept that God is able to and desirous of producing massive changes in lives as long as we don't expand the scale of changes beyond that of the spiritual lives and destinies of individuals. Individual change is good, societal change reeks of triumphalism.
Isn't a family a small society? So, if we say that the gospel can transform a family aren't we saying that the gospel can transform society? It seems that we are ok with the idea of massive gospel based social change as long as the society is really, really small..

David (Jollyblogger) is on to something here. For the past 30 years we've been brainwashed into believing that laws and rules put upon society is what will at least deter them and "make" then behave. But if the Christian Right had read their NT, especially Galatians, chapters 1-4; and Romans, chapters 1-7; they would have known that the law is weak and cannot change folks.
Years ago, at a church of which I was a member, we had a guest speaker. He said that when individuals get saved, families get saved. And when families get saved then neighborhoods get saved. When neighborhoods get saved towns and cities get saved. When cities get saved counties get saved. And when counties get saved then states (territories, etc.) get saved. And finally when states and territories get saved nations get saved.

Of course it is understood that not everyone in the family, neighborhood, city, county, state/territory or nation gets saved. But the more the merrier. In other words, the more that get born again WITH good discipleship follow-up, the better these entities, whether small or large will be.

Here We Go Again

100 years ago a book was published, Christianity and the Social Crisis, that gave impetus and credence to what came to be called the social gospel movement. The Protestant churches seemed to divide along that line - the liberal ones into not preaching the cross and atonement strongly,or not at all; but helping the poor through the social gospel. And the then-called fundamentalists, later seguing into what was called evangelicals, preaching the cross but without giving people in the community much aid or coming against societal injustice as a church -in other words, the social gospel. Why we cannot have both is beyond me. At Beliefnet.com there is a debate between Bill Hybels of Willowcreek Church and the great-grandson of the man who is regarded as one of the founders of the social gospel, Walter Rauschenbusch. His great-son and one of the debaters is Paul Rauschenbusch.

While I grew up in a liberal Protestant church and all I heard was the social gospel but NOT the gospel of the cross, that doesn't mean I think we should throw out the social gospel completely. But it needs to be refined and directed by the Holy Spirit, not by man and his well-intentioned "programs."

Here is part of what Bill Hybels wrote in his part of the debate. While I have had differences with some of Hybels' approach and what I consider at times gospel-lite, I think what he said in this portion of the debate is really right on. By the way, the debate is called Save Souls or Feed the Poor? and that was the link. Here is part of what Hybels said:

"Usually within months of a person's salvation experience, there is both a sincere desire to pass on the message of Christ to any and all, and an equally intense desire to do whatever is necessary in the name of Christ to eradicate injustice, relieve oppression, and alleviate suffering of any kind. Selfless service of this sort isn’t normal according to human nature; purely and simply, the desires are born out of the work of the Holy Spirit."


and.....


"In my teaching and leadership over the past several years, I have relied on two words to help keep our congregation at Willow Creek balanced on these issues: redeem and restore. I love how those two words fall phonetically, but more important, I love how they fall theologically. There’s nothing better than to see new believers around our church begin to weave those words into their everyday vocabulary; better still is when they begin to live them out in their everyday lives."

I say to those words.....Amen!

What's Happening in Your Church?

I am currently reading a fascnating book entitled, When God Comes to Church. The reason it's fascinating is because who wrote it. The book, written by the pastor who succeeded the late Adrian Rogers at Bellevue Baptist Church in the Memphis area, is about getting the Holy Spirit into the church. I don't know if the author, Steve Gaines, is a Charismatic Baptist, but this book is a gold mine. Here is a passage I read today from the book (p.67.

What happens at your church that can only be explained by the power of God? Most churches in America are explainable. What goes on can be easily attributed either to the senior pastor's abilities, the staff's hard work, or the laity's diligence. That's not the case when we look at the book of Acts. What took place in those churches was more than human persuasiveness, power or personality. It was "a God thing."

Cute Story

A new Pastor in a small Oklahoma town spent the first four days making personal visits to each of the members, inviting them to come to his first services. The following Sunday the church was all but empty. Accordingly, the Pastor placed a notice in the local newspapers, stating that, because the church was dead, it was everyone's duty to give it a decent Christian burial. The funeral would be held the following Sunday afternoon, the notice said.

Morbidly curious, a large crowd turned out for the "funeral." In front of the pulpit, they saw a closed coffin, smothered in flowers. After the Pastor delivered the eulogy, he opened the coffin and invited his congregation to come forward and pay their final respects to their dead church.

Filled with curiosity as to what would represent the corpse of a "dead church," all the people eagerly lined up to look in the coffin. Each "mourner" peeped into the coffin then quickly turned away with a guilty, sheepish look.

In the coffin, tilted at the correct angle, was a large mirror

I have to write this post every so often. The reason I have to once again point this out is because of my passion for truth. I hope I'm not nitpicking again, but I have to write about Christian "martyr" Dietrich Bonhoeffer. While he is to be greatly respected for his life and writings and thoughts; and while he is to be respected for the stand he took agaisnt the Nazis (and on behalf of the Jews) in the Confessing Movement, he was NOT martryed for his faith. He was killed for being a part of a plot on the life of the leader of his country.

Just thought you might want to know.


(and yes I know who that leader was, but it doesn't matter. The early apostles weren't trying to kill Caesar or Nero or Pilate.)

Lots of "Evangelism"

I thought this was priceless. It's from the Internet Monkblog.

Skateboard evangelism. Evangelism with illusions. Evangelism with cameras. Evangelism by gymnastics. Evangelism by music. Evangelism by feeding the poor. Church evangelism. Coffee shop evangelism. Small group evangelism. Crusade evangelism. Evangelism films. Evangelism by sports. Evangelism by preaching. Evangelism on the beach. Evangelism in traditional churches. Evangelism in non-traditional churches. Purpose driven evangelism. Puppet evangelism. Teen evangelism. Drama evangelism.

"Christian" Psychology?

"I bought into the psychology lies in church counseling," Wenger said. "It never solved anything. The power of the Gospel is the message of the Cross."
(Source: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/a_return_to_bas.html)

What exactly is "Christian" psychology? I've been pondering this for about the last 40 years. Psychology is actually a humanistic discipline begun by mostly agnostic, or in Freud's case, perhaps atheistic people. Here is the problem. Evangelical Christians take a mostly worldly, humanistic discipline and dig around in the Scriptures until they find verses that "sort of" go along with it and call it "Christian." So, we have Christian psychology, Christian yoga, Christian schools (most of them are run exactly like schools in the 1950's including curriculum presentation methods of that era), and so on. But what exactly makes these disciplines "Christian?" Well, the answer is - nothing, because they aren't.

I've watched so-called Christian psychology morph from a Rogerian model in the 1960's into today's biopsychriatic mode. The common thread here is Christian psychology following their secular counterparts. I always know what will happen in two or three years in Christian psychology by looking at what's happening today in secular psychology.

IMO, what is serious today in Christian psychology is the pill pushing. Secular psychiatrists have decided that we are basically biological, and therefore in order to cure us, traditional "talking" therapy might not be of any, or at elast too much, use. When we have problems, it may be our chemistry that's whacked out. So, to even out the chemistry, we take what is called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. In 1994 Dr. Peter Breggin, former head of the National Institute for Mental Health and Harvard professor, in his book, Talking Back to Prozac, told us that these inhibitors are not tested well and 7% of those taking them either try to commit suicide or murder someone, or actually commit the acts. Breggin reported that at that time no tests had been done on children or the elderly. He encouraged psychiatrists to go back to less strong inhibitors that did the job as fine and also pursuing a more "talking" therapeutic model for most clients. He said the reason stronger inhibitors were on the market was drug companies wanting more profit. Well, here we are 13 years later and everything he predicted has come true. Here is another prediction from me. I think they will eventually begin to link some cancers and other health problems to these drugs.

When the evangelical community follows the secular community the outcomes aren't always wonderful. Then why do Christian psychologists follow this pattern? The major problem lies in their training. They must of course go to an accredited masters or doctoral program which is found mostly in secular schools. So, we cannot expect our Christian psychologists, after 2 years average of grad school (for the Masters) to suddenly have a cogent "Christian psychology" all ready to go. What about accredited Christian college and university programs? Sadly, they mostly follow their secular counterparts. Fuller Seminary is an excellent example fo this...and I will leave that alone for the time being....LOL. These "Christian" university/college/seminary programs are basically a secular humanistic base with Scriptures sprinkled on top. Or, they might say, "we present a Christian worldview." I've never understood what that means when talking about psychology. Very few Christian psychologists begin with the Bible as a foundation and go from there. In the early 1980's Jay Adams did and he was laughed out of town by many Christian psychological associations. Actually, and happily, he is back and being taken more seriously as I suspect many Christian therpists are not happy with the results of the biotherapeutic model of being merely pill pushers. So the dilemma for Christian psychologists is it's too time consuming to put tpgether a Biblical model of therapy. I certainly don't blame them. Bless those who take hours and hours to do this and sort through everything.

Here is another factor to consider. The poor in the developed countries and almost everyone in developing countries cannot afford to visit a Christian psychologist if there are even such beings near to where they live. So then, do we have a two-tiered "religion?" One for the well-off and another for the poor? That doesn't make sense and something is very wrong with it. So, what's the answer? Well, there seems to be a missing link here - the church. Why isn't the church solving these problems? Because the church is impotent today, even the so-called Charismatic ones and I don't know what in the world is happening in Pentecostal land. At the very least, churches, especially the larger ones, could hire the very best Christian psychologists - those who've worked out a more Biblical counseling and offer it free to their members first, and then to other church attenders. But since that involves too much money, don't look for it anytime soon. Christian psychologists don't work for the usual church $8-10/hr. Another facet is spiritual gifts, but they aren't organized in a cogent manner in any church I've ever heard of. Therefore they aren't used much, except by a few people, mostly in leadership. If we could harness these gifts in mature use (as opposed to the amateurish stuff you see in so many Charismatic churches today), as well as hire the most Biblically-based therapists we can find, we might have a beginning of an answer. Would I tell someone to seek a Christian therapist? Probably in many cases, yes, since that is pretty well their only option right now.

So, what do you think about this dilemma?


WARNING: PLEASE DO NOT TAKE WHAT I SAID ABOVE ABOUT ANTI-DEPRESSANTS TO MEAN I WANT YOU TO STOP USING THEM. YOU MUST NOT GO OFF THESE INHIBITORS UNLESS YOUR DOCTOR SAYS IT'S OK.

I Weigh in on the CT Aikman Column

When I opened up my new Christianity Today (CT) last month and got to one of my favorite columns, written by David Aikman, I went into shock. As a daily reader of Ken Silva's Christian Research Network blog, I couldn't believe what I was reading. In my 30 years of taking this magazine I have never read such a vitriolic attack. While Ken can be sarcastic and a bit over the top, I find him informative. If Aikman thinks Silva is bad, I can show him loads of other so-called "attack dogs" that would probably blow him away. What is confusing to me is when Aikman gives examples of Silva's "attacks." When our so-called evangelical leaders are inviting all kinds of unbelievers or spurious believers to their colleges and churches to speak and endorsing them, I think it should raise concerns. Ken Silva, among others, are raising these concerns.

****I'm really wondering, if Silva used more "grace" as Aikman suggests, if that really would please Aikman. In other words, is it Silva's manner bothering him? Or is it what he is saying? I wished Aikman had made this clearer. I sensed that some of Aikman's attack was about WHAT Silva said, not just how he said it. You can read Aikman's article here.

Ministry Today also had an article very similar to David Aikmans' in the present September/October issue. The article entitled "The War on Error," by pastor David Cannistraci, was much different in tone and I thought more helpful. The only criticism I would have about it was its vagueness. You really don't have a clue to who he is talking about but he gives more suggestions to improve the "attack-dog" virulence than Aikman does IMO.

***But I see a larger picture here than what I've read on blogs that are weighing on the Aikman column both pro and con. What I see is a trend among certain Christian media to endorse and even promote the emergent movement and especially the emergent village. For example, A CT publication, Leadership Journal, a magazine for Christian leaders, in the last issue and another two months begore that one was wall-to-wall emergent. Contrast it with Ministry Today, a leadership magazine put out by the Strang group (publishers of Charisma magazine), and what a difference. The Strang magazine is much more balanced, and while it includes a couple of columns/articles by emergents, it isn't filled with them.

So, I would advise you all to watch the Christian media very carefully as I believe some or even much of it will begin to promote all things emergent, emergent village leaders, the New Chirstian Left and the teachings of Sanders and N. T. Wright on process conversion and the New Perspective on Paul.

Dan Kimball's book - Last Chapters

The last two chapters of Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church, challenge Christians to get out and about to get to know unbelievers in their late teens, twenties and early thirties. He especialyl chllenges pastor to do this. And now with laptops and broadband, that should be easier to do.

Just before he challenges us to do this, he draws two diagrams of what he calls two chasms. Most of us are familiar with the picture (stick figures in the Campus Crusade Four Laws version) of the chasm of SIN between us and God.

MAN__chasm___SIN___chasm___GOD

But Kimball introduces us to another chasm that looks like this:

MAN__chasm___CHRISTIAN SUBCULTURE (Misunderstandings of Christ and the church)___chasm___GOD

He points out that until recently, our country pretty much assented to the Judeo-Christian ethic and pastors were trusted. So, the first illustration was applicable and understandable. However, with this postmodern culture and the way our society has changed so rapidly since the 60's, the first illustration is no longer applicable and we must turn to the second one. Since most younger people need to cross the first chasm before even getting to the second one, we must help them cross the first one by relating to them authentically as friends first and then help them cross over by explaining what Christianity really is without the judgmental trappings. Then, some, but not all, are ready to cross over to the second chasm and we can then go into telling the salvation message.

I have never heard anyone explain it like this but it certainly struck a chord within me as being right on. I think most Christians just aren't aware that the first chasm exists among many people today. We tend to write them off as "hard-hearted sinners," when as Kimball has found out, they just don't understand us and why we do and say the things we do and say. A few years after I became a Christian I discovered that Acts 1:"8 doesn't say "you shall witness." It says, "you shall BE witnesses." I capitalized and highlighted the "be" because it is so essential to the meaning here. We don't try to witness; we just either are a witness - or we aren't.

I thought this was one of the most important books I've read and I recommend it highly to you. If you are hesitant to read it because emergent Dan Kimball wrote it (I was), I would encourage you to read it anyway. I don't think you will disagree with much in it. Kimball, unlike many other emergent village leaders, has gotten the knack of keeping a cogent fundamental theology (yes, I actually used the "f" word) while relating to the postmodern generation. I really don't see the theological compromise I thought I would find. If I was teaching a church class about postmoderns, I definitely think I would try to give this book to everyone in the class, if I could afford it....:). That is how important I found this book to be.

In a few weeks I will probably be reporting on Sarah Cunningham's book, Dear Church, which is in the same vein as Kimball's book. Until then I have lots saved up to share - things I've read over the past two months that need to be reported.

My computer has some problems due to trying to get a virus out and the only important thing that is wrong with it is I cannot get into my blog to write it. Wouldn't ya know? But I'll try to get to the library internet as much as possible, whihc is where this post is being writeen. So if I skip a day now and then, you will know why. I think I'm going to have to pay someone to straighten it all out (be damned you Norton antivirus program). AAUGGHH!

My Church Visiting Odyssey

Why is it that when you visit a secular non-Christian group, most of the time you are accepted and connect right away? But when you visit a church, it can take years to connect, if you connect at all and decide to stay. I realize that some of you will think I am a bit critical in this post. But we need to understand that a non-believer might only visit once or twice and we cannot squander our opportunities. I don't believe each individual church member is to be held responsible for knowing how to approach visitors. This is something tha needs to be set up by churches and include people who have a real desire for this type of ministry. As I said in my opening sentence, it is just too tragic that often, secular organizations seem to know how to welcome newcomers, but churches fail so badly at this.

In all four of the churches I visited, at no time outside the worship did I hear Jesus mentoned and at no time was there any explanation of what it meant to be a Christian or how to become one. There were no "invitations" to "accept" Christ, which I know will make many readers happy. And, I don't mind that but I do mind nothing being said at all. For some people, this might be their only time at a church. 25 years ago, it would be difficult for someone to visit an evangelical church and NOT hear the gospel. But today, the gospel is offensive. And, both Jesus and Paul said it would be. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised, but still sad when it's the church who is offended.

This summer I decided to visit some other churches to see what was happening in evangelical land in my area (S. Cal). I went alone to three churches and with a friend to a fourth one. The big challenge for churches is how visitors are received. And the really BIG challenge is how they treat a visitor who comes alone. Most churches flunk the latter big time and many don't do very well with the former either. I didn't go to these churches to critique them, just to see what was happening out there. What I found was pretty sad. NO church had more than 200 people. These churches are located in large urban-suburban areas. Two of the churches are located in cities of 160,000 people. Two others are located in smaller communities/areas of I would guess about 50,000. So 200 is abysmal because in my area there just aren't that many evangelical churches compared to an area like the South for example.

I visited a Foursquare, Sovereign Grace, Word of Faith and a PCUSA church (but more evangelical than the usual PCUSA church). And here is my report. These churches may or may not represent others of their denomination/network.

Almost all of the churches lacked the sense of the Holy Spirit moving through them. The Presbyterian one had the best worship believe it or not. It wasn't forced or canned. I felt some of the Spirit moving through the praise group. It was also the friendliest, although I did go with a friend, not alone.

The Foursquare's music was waaay too loud for the small church space. And I felt it was forced. By forced I mean the praise team "tries" to get into the mood of the Spirit, but it's no go. The Word of Faith was the same way and so was the Sovereign Grace church to some extent, but it was a little better than the former two.

How Was I Greeted?
It's always interesting to see churches' reactions when someone comes alone. Most churches don't think there are people who are single. So, when one comes to their church for the first time, they looked awestruck, as if you arrived from Jupiter. The friendliest church was the Presbyterian. The worst was the Word of Faith and Sovereign Grace. None of them had anyone who offered to sit with me or guide me through the service.

So, here is a blow by blow description of what happened in each church.

First Week: Foursquare
As I walked in the door I was greeted by the "door people" (official greeters) but not with the usual robotic "Hi, glad to have you" speech. These people seemed to realize that this was my first time. They were nice and more real than usual door people are. But no one offered to tell me where to sit or to sit with me. I went into the church alone and sat next to a lady who said hello. The people in front of me turned around and said hello. So far so good. But that didn't last long. I looked to the side across the aisle and saw the few over 60's sitting there. Oops. I'm sitting in the "wrong" section. Well, too late now...the service is beginning. The music was ear shattering for the really teeny tiny sanctuary. I thought I was going to lose my ear drums. There was a middle aged babe on keyboard who was trying to dress and look like 27. As the service ended the pastor asked her to come up with him. Oh my Gosh! I then realized she was the pastor's wife. Oh boy.

I didn't hear the pastor preach as there was a woman guest speaker. She was so anointed that I almost fell under the Spirit (sorry for the Pentecostally speak--but this was a Pentecostal church...:) She was excellent and really ministered to me, not only in what she said, but in spirit too. I saw a woman on the elderly side who was in a non-church class I was taking and so went over to see her after the service. We ended up chatting as we left the church so I left with a good feeling. But what would have happened if I hadn't been talking to anyone? Would I have left the church by myself without anybody noticing? I probably will never know.

Would I go back to this church? Yes, most probably. It had a real family feeling and I think I would be able to connect there. I would just have to wear earplugs.

Second Week: A Sovereign Grace church

I walked in and had the usual robotic greeting. Then I looked around and didn't have a clue as to where the church met. There was no door. So now what do I do? I stood there looking like an idiot and then to my left, my eye caught a small sign with an arrow that said "auditorium." "Well," I wondered, "maybe that is where the church meets." As I walked toward the sign a woman was behind a table. I asked her if this was the church and she was very nice and helpful. She said, "yes," and explained that they shut the doors to keep the air conditioning cool inside. I opened the doors and walked in. Immediately I saw two elderly women sitting near the back so thought they might be my ticket to not being alone. I went over and introduced myself and they seemed happy that I was visiting. We had a nice chat and then one said, "Well, it was nice meeting you but I have to go sit with my husband near the front." OK, I thought, no problem. But then, a few minutes later, the other lady said, "Well, it was nice meeting you" and walked away toward the front leaving me alone with screaming children running all over the place and parents who weren't especially concerned about this. It was absolute chaos in this church auditorium and the service was about to start. So, I decided to get bold and followed after the lady and asked if I could sit with her. She said "yes," and turned out to be very nice and helpful to me during the service. The music there was loud too but a it was in a larger room to accommodate it. I had never heard Sovereign Grace music before. It was kind of 7/11 stuff but with hymn-like words and more postmodernist music. During the worship, at times, someone would come up and say something and the music would stop. Then the music would start again and later another person would come up and say something. Fortunately I had been in Pentecostal churches for 19 years so I guessed this must be some sort of prophetic word. But nothing was explained. When I was at Jack Hayford's church many moons ago he always explained to visitors what was happening. He was particularly sensitive toward non-Pentecostal visitors. Maybe that would be something our Charismatic and Pentecostal churches could think about doing.

After the music time they served communion and I had no idea if this was like other Reformational churches where communion is only open to members. So, I asked the lady next to me and she said, "Oh no. It's an open communion. " Again, no explanation for visitors. At announcement time the pastor talked about a member who had been in a disastrous accident and was just holding on. He said that church members had gathered to pray and cry out to God for this man. I wished he believed in Healing in the Atonement. Then they wouldn't have to cry and plead so much. The only hope this man has IMO is the love the church has for him and those prayers just might do the trick. But it would be so much more effective if this church would learn about how to pray for healing. And that was a concern I raised with Sovereign Grace churches in another post a few years ago. This really isn't a criticism -more like sadness that these people feel as covenant people they have to cry and plead and beg God to heal them. I expect that with a non-C/P church, but not a Charismatic one.

The sermon was long and boring and I fell asleep, which is unusual for me. But I thought the pastor seemed nice and sincere. Sadly, I didn't sense one ounce of the Holy Spirit present throughout any of the service, although I did sense love of the congregants for each other and a lot of sincerity. As the service closed, visitors were given a ticket for a free Sovereign Grace demo CD from their bookstore. I went to the small bookstore off the lobby and gave the man behind the counter my ticket. He never said a word to me; no - "Welcome to our church;" - absolutely nothing. I thanked him and walked out of the church with no one saying anything to me.

Would I go back to this church? Never.

Week three: PCUSA Presbyterian Church
It's really sad for me to have to say that many times the mainline churches and even the more liberal ones really know how to treat visitors. But somehow, and I have seen this for my 43 years of being an evangelical, the evangelical churches usually have poor social graces. It's not that they don't love people. They just do not know what to do with them or how to relate to them.

My friend wanted me to go to this church and so I did. Overall people were very accommodating and friendly to us. It would have been interesting to see how I was treated if I had gone alone. I think I would have been treated well. The praise part of the service was excellent. The Spirit was moving. The pastor's sermon was pretty good although I disagreed with some of his points but I don't hold that against him or the church. It's just a difference fo theological orientation. My friend and I were invited to coffee time held after the service and we went. Everyone was friendly and we had no trouble connecting with people. As we left several said goodbye and told us they were glad we came.

Would I go back to this church? Perhaps. I only say perhaps because I don't see me fitting in there and the theology isn't up my alley. But overall, I think others who would fit in would find this church a real gem.

Week Four: Word of Faith church
If you don't know what a Word of Faith church is, think Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland. I spent 8 years in these churches and saw the good, bad and ugly. I had visited this church before about 10 years ago. WOF churches have large turnovers, at least out here they do. About every 3-5 years they get a new church membership. Usually these churches here don't have more than 150 people at one time.

I walked in and was really OVER-welcomed. I was told if I needed healing I really needed to ask the huge guy who greeted me first and wanted to give me a "BIG hug." I shook his hand. I never said I needed healing and since I don't know this guy, I would probably not ask him or anyone in a church where I didn't know anyone to pray for me. But maybe another time. I went in and the lady handing out the bulletins greeted me. She looked spacy with this frozen smile on her face. I went and sat down. I don't think there were 20 people there but this was Labor Day weekend. The air conditioning wasn't working and it was 104 outside here in the L.A. valley areas. They were very nice and offered bottled water during the service and had the ceiling fans going. It was baptismal day and they didn't start the service until 20 minutes late. Nine children got baptized as well a three adults. When the service started the pastor said they were going to baptize first. He went into what baptism was and said that sprinkling was not baptism and churches who did that were not correct. Dipping was the only Biblical way. I guess he didn't realize that his only visitor (me) attends one of those water-sprinkling Presbyterian churches. But I understood what he was saying and didn't take offense. After baptism we sang some really not-anointed praise songs. The praise leaders really were trying to get something going--but in my estimation they were trying just too "hard." But then, in the heat, I was surprised they could even sing and play up thereon the platform. The pastor preached on unforgiveness and it was pretty good but it was the usual unforgiveness sermon without telling us HOW to forgive. If you listen to Copeland he is very good at telling how to forgive. I hope this pastor will listen to him on this subject. I learned afterwards that they have a fellowship coffee after the service in another room. No one invited me. I actually had known someone who attends this church so talked to her a bit. Then I had a question for another person and then left.

Would I return? Probably not, with the exception of nationally known speakers they sometimes have for special meetings.

And that ends my summer odyssey of church visitation. Not a real happy experience. What are your experiences? Has anyone out there gone to a church the first time alone

Chapters 9 and 10 of Dan Kimball's Book

Chapter 9 of Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church tackles unbeliever's perceptions that we are right and every other religion is wrong. To connect to unbelievers, Kimball suggests Christians learn a little about other religions so we can talk intelligently to others. He says that Christians also need to think out why Christianity is different and why we would want others to come to Christ.

Chapter 10 is in the same vein - the enmerging generations feel that Christians take the Bible too literally. Again, Kimball calls for Christians to really know the historical, cultural and literary devices of the Bible. What I found intriguing was his suggestion for churches to hold classes for their members and other interested people in hermeneutics (Bible interpretation and study), church history and world religions . He gives two illustrations of churches doing just this. In a church he helped to start they hold a "school of theology." They named it this to send the message that they considered it serious to study these things for better communication to unbelievers as well as for their own lives. On the first night of registration, Kimball reports that there was a long line of twenty-somethings waiting to register for the classes. He refutes the idea that the emerging generation wants pabulum. He says they do want the deeper things of God in a way they can understand and accept without compromising our the church’s beliefs.