If you've been following my saga of trying to find another church, you know, like so many other evangelicals, I am very discouraged. It isn't that I need the perfect church, just one that is 1/2 friendly and teaches the Word. If the Holy Spirit is there in power that is just icing on the cake too.
But, as many readers know, God impressed upon me to stay in my dead church until further notice. The thing that keeps me from despair is having talked to many others in my church who want to leave but for some strange reason God won't let them leave either. So, our only hope is that God is up to something interesting in my church.
But today, there was no Sunday School class so I decided to visit a church further from me. This would be the ideal church for me to attend but for two factors. It is far (about 25 min by freeway) which I've done in the distant past and really don't want to do again. I want to be in a church in or very near my own city--one that is connected here as I don't really care about there; I care about here - the schools, the city council, crime and so forth. The second and most important reason is the church I visited today is VERY anti-Pentecostal and Charismatic. The Charismatic I can understand but it saddens me that this church has taken a strong stand against Pentecostalism, even the more educated, middle class "Hafordistic (Jack Hayford) Pentecostalism," This church has been anti-Pentecostal/Charismatic since at least 1969 when the present pastor first came there. He has even written a book about the Charismatic mess today. The church I attended today is very well-known. My Young Calvinist readers will most likely know it. I will tell you what it is in a moment.
The Word was preached correctly with emphasis on the work of Jesus on the cross. We actually sang hymns and no Baby Boomer praise music. And, more importantly, I did sense the Holy Spirit's presence quite well, which is more than I can say for the dead Pentecostal and Charismatic churches I've visited recently in my area. For those of you who don't know where I live--I reside in Southern California, just northwest of Los Angeles in the very east end of the San Fernanco Valley. That might give you a clue as to which church I visited today.
While children in other churches were learning that:
-God accepts them no matter if they are saved or not, and He is busy helping them to achieve THEIR purposes
-They need to help the poor and keep the environment clean to really prove they are Christians
The children in this church learned today (taken from their bulletin for parents to follow up with their children at home):
Based on Revelations 20:1-15,
-Satan and his followers will go into the lake of fire
-Those whose names are not found in the Book of Life will face God's judgement
-They can escape God's judgement by believing in Christ and repenting of sin
-When saved they can eagerly share the gospel with others who are not saved
Oh my! How old fashioned!
So where did I go to church today?
Yes, some of you guesed it already........
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Grace Community Church--Pastor John MacArthur
Sunday, August 31, 2008
Saturday, August 30, 2008
Sarah Palin is...........
Guess what I just found out. Sarah Palin, John McCain's VP pick, is a Pentecostal. She attends an Assembly of God Church in Juneau, Alaska.
Of course we don't know if that means good things, as the former Attorney General of the United States, John Ashcroft, is also an AG'er, and we saw how that mess turned out.
Thanks to Eric of the What We Have Here Is... blog in his post here for the Sarah Palin info.
Of course we don't know if that means good things, as the former Attorney General of the United States, John Ashcroft, is also an AG'er, and we saw how that mess turned out.
Thanks to Eric of the What We Have Here Is... blog in his post here for the Sarah Palin info.
Friday, August 29, 2008
Quote of the Week
I usually don't go into politics here but this quote from Barney Smith, one of the "ordinary" citizens who spoke last night at the Democratic Convention before Senator Obama's speech, was one of the most classic lines I've heard in a long time.
"We need a president who puts Barney Smith before Smith-Barney."
"We need a president who puts Barney Smith before Smith-Barney."
Monday, August 25, 2008
Ye Olde Synthesis
(Note: I'm going to keep this post as the most recent one since I feel it's important. Also, I added quite a lot of new material in the center, so if you've already read it, perhaps you will read it again. Thanks).
Either A=B; or A, does not equal B.
Either A or B, but not both A and B is true.
That is the logic most of us over 35 are used to. It's called Aristotelian logic after guess-who? Yes...him...the Greek philospher. Here are some examples as to how this logic works within Christianity.
Either Christianity is true (A) or Buddhism is true (B). But both cannot be true. In other words either A, not B; or, B, not A.
In postmodern logic both A and B can be true. Or, to put it simply and in a Hegelian dialectic way, A little of this and a little of that. In other words, a little of A and a little of B. And now ladies and gentlemen....that equals C.
A and B=C
Translating it into our Christianity and Buddhism example,
Some elements of Christianity + some elements of Buddhism=Progressive Christianity (what the emergents are calling themselves now--Progressive Christians.).
People have done this syntesizing with Christianity in history and frankly, it didn't turn out so well. For example,
This was done in the Middle Ages with a combo of a tad eastern mysticism, a dollop of paganism thrown in with some elements of Christianity....and..well..who wants to go back there and live? Well, the emergent Christians seem to since that is essentially some of their belief system.
The emergent faction is criticising us old folks for synthesizing Christianity with rationalism (read that Cartesianism). Could be true in fact. Maybe we need to examine that aspect a little more. But, this post is about how our younger Christians are thinking nowadays and how that thinking is affecting evangelical Christianity.
Recently, I visited another adult Sunday School class in my church. My contribution to the discussion was that the churches are losing the message of the cross. A young fellow, in his late 20's or early 30's, enthusiastically agreed with me. Then I explained to the class in a short capsulized description what the emergent church was doing in denying the substitionary atonement. This same young man said to me, I wonder if that is one of the people who wrote the best book I ever read - it really spoke to me. I asked him what that book was and he replied, "Blue Like Jazz" by Donald Miller. Before we continue, here are some snippets from that book, courtesy of Lighthouse Trails (http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1193&more=1&c=1),
"For me, the beginning of sharing my faith with people began by throwing out Christianity and embracing Christian spirituality, a nonpolitical mysterious system that can be experienced but not explained." (p. 115)
and these passages from the book courtesy of the Kjos Ministries site(http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/nathan/green_like_envy.htm). Miller hung around a ultra-hip very liberal college, Reed College. Miller writes,
"“Each year at Reed they have a festival called Ren Fayre. They shut down the campus so students can party. Security keeps the authorities away, and everybody gets pretty drunk and high, and some people get naked. Friday night is mostly about getting drunk, and Saturday night is about getting high. The school brings in White Bird, a medical unit that specializes in treating bad drug trips. The students create special lounges with black lights and television screens to enhance kids’ mushroom trips.” ( Hallucinogenic mushrooms are also called “magic” mushrooms).
“Saturday evening at Ren Fayre is alive and fun. The sun goes down over the campus, and shortly after dark they shoot fireworks over the tennis courts. Students lay out on a hill and laugh and point in blurry-eyed fascination. The highlight of the evening is a glow opera that packs the amphitheater with students and friends. The opera is designed to enhance mushroom trips.”
The Kjos Ministries site goes on to say that Miller seemed to really enjoy these events. I also read Miller's book a while ago and I also remember thinking he was an overgrown hippie. But this guy is the darling of the younger Christian crowd and was invited to give the opening benediction at the Democratic convention this past week. Here is more from Blue Like Jazz,courtesy of the Kjos Ministires site (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/nathan/green_like_envy.htm),
"“When my friend Paul and I lived in the woods, we lived with hippies. Well, sort of hippies. They certainly smoked a lot of pot. They drank beer a lot. And man did they love each other, sometimes too much perhaps, too physically, you know, but nevertheless they loved; they accepted and cherished everybody, even the ones who judged them because they were hippies. It was odd living with hippies at first, but I enjoyed it after a while.”
“We would sit around and talk about literature and each other, and I couldn’t tell the difference between the books they were talking about and their lives, they were just that cool. I liked them very much because they were interested in me. When I was with hippies, I did not feel judged, I felt loved. To them I was an endless well of stories and perspectives and grand literary views. It felt so wonderful to be in their presence, like I was special.”
Ok, I think you get the gist. Here is what I want to point out. This young man in my church basically said,
[A] I agree wholeheartedly that it's important we stress what Jesus did at the cross for us and orthodox Christianity (Note from me: with what I assume would be its attendant morals and ethics)
and
[B] Blue Like Jazz really spoke to me
That is a classic case of A AND B, where most of us (at least those of us over 35) couldn't fathom how anybdy could put those two things together. But young postmoderns can....and do.
In late 19th and early 20th century Germany, most of the Lutheran churches were following a weird form of liberal Protestantism. It was called Positive Christianity and was a synthesis of certain parts of mostly the New Testament and extreme anti-Semitic Aryanism. When the Nazis came to power they loved it! This is what can happen when Christianity is synthesized with something else.
How about these:
"Christian" yoga
"Christian" psychology
"Christian" __________(you fill in the blank)
Perhaps we need to think these through more too?
In missions, there is a tendency to allow people from other religions who receive Christ to keep following their religion -- AND -- be "Christ followers" too.
This is why I think it's important for us to study the first century church (and the apostles' mind) thoroughly, in order to avoid the synthesis of Christianity with other religions/philosophies/economical systems/political systems, etc.
Either A=B; or A, does not equal B.
Either A or B, but not both A and B is true.
That is the logic most of us over 35 are used to. It's called Aristotelian logic after guess-who? Yes...him...the Greek philospher. Here are some examples as to how this logic works within Christianity.
Either Christianity is true (A) or Buddhism is true (B). But both cannot be true. In other words either A, not B; or, B, not A.
In postmodern logic both A and B can be true. Or, to put it simply and in a Hegelian dialectic way, A little of this and a little of that. In other words, a little of A and a little of B. And now ladies and gentlemen....that equals C.
A and B=C
Translating it into our Christianity and Buddhism example,
Some elements of Christianity + some elements of Buddhism=Progressive Christianity (what the emergents are calling themselves now--Progressive Christians.).
People have done this syntesizing with Christianity in history and frankly, it didn't turn out so well. For example,
This was done in the Middle Ages with a combo of a tad eastern mysticism, a dollop of paganism thrown in with some elements of Christianity....and..well..who wants to go back there and live? Well, the emergent Christians seem to since that is essentially some of their belief system.
The emergent faction is criticising us old folks for synthesizing Christianity with rationalism (read that Cartesianism). Could be true in fact. Maybe we need to examine that aspect a little more. But, this post is about how our younger Christians are thinking nowadays and how that thinking is affecting evangelical Christianity.
Recently, I visited another adult Sunday School class in my church. My contribution to the discussion was that the churches are losing the message of the cross. A young fellow, in his late 20's or early 30's, enthusiastically agreed with me. Then I explained to the class in a short capsulized description what the emergent church was doing in denying the substitionary atonement. This same young man said to me, I wonder if that is one of the people who wrote the best book I ever read - it really spoke to me. I asked him what that book was and he replied, "Blue Like Jazz" by Donald Miller. Before we continue, here are some snippets from that book, courtesy of Lighthouse Trails (http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1193&more=1&c=1),
"For me, the beginning of sharing my faith with people began by throwing out Christianity and embracing Christian spirituality, a nonpolitical mysterious system that can be experienced but not explained." (p. 115)
and these passages from the book courtesy of the Kjos Ministries site(http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/nathan/green_like_envy.htm). Miller hung around a ultra-hip very liberal college, Reed College. Miller writes,
"“Each year at Reed they have a festival called Ren Fayre. They shut down the campus so students can party. Security keeps the authorities away, and everybody gets pretty drunk and high, and some people get naked. Friday night is mostly about getting drunk, and Saturday night is about getting high. The school brings in White Bird, a medical unit that specializes in treating bad drug trips. The students create special lounges with black lights and television screens to enhance kids’ mushroom trips.” ( Hallucinogenic mushrooms are also called “magic” mushrooms).
“Saturday evening at Ren Fayre is alive and fun. The sun goes down over the campus, and shortly after dark they shoot fireworks over the tennis courts. Students lay out on a hill and laugh and point in blurry-eyed fascination. The highlight of the evening is a glow opera that packs the amphitheater with students and friends. The opera is designed to enhance mushroom trips.”
The Kjos Ministries site goes on to say that Miller seemed to really enjoy these events. I also read Miller's book a while ago and I also remember thinking he was an overgrown hippie. But this guy is the darling of the younger Christian crowd and was invited to give the opening benediction at the Democratic convention this past week. Here is more from Blue Like Jazz,courtesy of the Kjos Ministires site (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/nathan/green_like_envy.htm),
"“When my friend Paul and I lived in the woods, we lived with hippies. Well, sort of hippies. They certainly smoked a lot of pot. They drank beer a lot. And man did they love each other, sometimes too much perhaps, too physically, you know, but nevertheless they loved; they accepted and cherished everybody, even the ones who judged them because they were hippies. It was odd living with hippies at first, but I enjoyed it after a while.”
“We would sit around and talk about literature and each other, and I couldn’t tell the difference between the books they were talking about and their lives, they were just that cool. I liked them very much because they were interested in me. When I was with hippies, I did not feel judged, I felt loved. To them I was an endless well of stories and perspectives and grand literary views. It felt so wonderful to be in their presence, like I was special.”
Ok, I think you get the gist. Here is what I want to point out. This young man in my church basically said,
[A] I agree wholeheartedly that it's important we stress what Jesus did at the cross for us and orthodox Christianity (Note from me: with what I assume would be its attendant morals and ethics)
and
[B] Blue Like Jazz really spoke to me
That is a classic case of A AND B, where most of us (at least those of us over 35) couldn't fathom how anybdy could put those two things together. But young postmoderns can....and do.
In late 19th and early 20th century Germany, most of the Lutheran churches were following a weird form of liberal Protestantism. It was called Positive Christianity and was a synthesis of certain parts of mostly the New Testament and extreme anti-Semitic Aryanism. When the Nazis came to power they loved it! This is what can happen when Christianity is synthesized with something else.
How about these:
"Christian" yoga
"Christian" psychology
"Christian" __________(you fill in the blank)
Perhaps we need to think these through more too?
In missions, there is a tendency to allow people from other religions who receive Christ to keep following their religion -- AND -- be "Christ followers" too.
This is why I think it's important for us to study the first century church (and the apostles' mind) thoroughly, in order to avoid the synthesis of Christianity with other religions/philosophies/economical systems/political systems, etc.
Saturday, August 23, 2008
The Christian Right and the Christian Left
30 years ago I was telling my friends that the newly formed Moral Majority, and the Christian Right in general, was a bad idea. Being a conservative Goldwater Republican myself, this surprised my friends. I explained that you cannot legislate morals IF a majority does not want them. It's the old Galatians law (flesh) vs. grace (Spirit) problem. Methinks 30 years has proven me correct. I saw what the end would be for Christianity in this country if we didn't get off of the political message and onto the gospel message. We didn't and now most of our citizens do not really udnerstand what we believe---because we have not told them. They think we are legalists and homosexual haters. Even two men who helped Falwell in the early days took 25 years before they "got it." In 1999, they finally wrote a book, Blinded by Might: Can the Religious Right Save America? It's by Cal Thomas, the columnist and pastor Ed Dobson (no relation to James). The title is a rehetorical question with the answer being "No." And that was their conclusion too.
Now we have the New Christian Left which is bordering on socialism and even in some quarters on Marxism. I predicted right here at Crossroads that the Emergent Villagers would be the ones to get on board with this and I was right. Donald Miller will be giving the invocation at the Democratic Party Convention next week and some emergents like Brian McLaren have already endorsed Senator Obama. And that is OK as not every Christian must be a Republican. However, when you read some of the latest emergent writing, like McLaren's book, Everything Must Change, you begin to udnerstand how far some of these emergents want to take the Democratic Party. I read the following at the Christian History and Biography Website (Link below). It's what from Augustine said in the 4th century as the Barbarians were literally at the gate--Rome's gate. Many of us believe we may have a repeat of the same here in America in the near future. I think Augustine was right on. The quote is by Dr. Timothy George, dean of Beeson Divinity School of Samford University
"There are two major (and regrettably common) mistakes Augustine wants us to avoid. One is the lure of utopianism—the mistake of thinking we can produce a society that will solve our problems and bring about the Kingdom of God on earth. This was the basic error of both Marxism and 19th-century liberalism.
[my observation--think 'New Christian Left']
The other error, equally disastrous, is cynicism. This creeps upon us as we see ever-present evil. We withdraw into our own self-contained circle of contentment, which can just as well be a pious holy huddle as a secular skeptics club."
[My observation--think Fundamentalists in the first half of the 20th century]
So, what is the answer then? Well, read over some of my former posts from the past six months. I'm trying to forge an answer to this question, especially in light of the new philosophy on hand--postmodernism.
(Source for qote: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/2007/issue94/1.6.html)
Now we have the New Christian Left which is bordering on socialism and even in some quarters on Marxism. I predicted right here at Crossroads that the Emergent Villagers would be the ones to get on board with this and I was right. Donald Miller will be giving the invocation at the Democratic Party Convention next week and some emergents like Brian McLaren have already endorsed Senator Obama. And that is OK as not every Christian must be a Republican. However, when you read some of the latest emergent writing, like McLaren's book, Everything Must Change, you begin to udnerstand how far some of these emergents want to take the Democratic Party. I read the following at the Christian History and Biography Website (Link below). It's what from Augustine said in the 4th century as the Barbarians were literally at the gate--Rome's gate. Many of us believe we may have a repeat of the same here in America in the near future. I think Augustine was right on. The quote is by Dr. Timothy George, dean of Beeson Divinity School of Samford University
"There are two major (and regrettably common) mistakes Augustine wants us to avoid. One is the lure of utopianism—the mistake of thinking we can produce a society that will solve our problems and bring about the Kingdom of God on earth. This was the basic error of both Marxism and 19th-century liberalism.
[my observation--think 'New Christian Left']
The other error, equally disastrous, is cynicism. This creeps upon us as we see ever-present evil. We withdraw into our own self-contained circle of contentment, which can just as well be a pious holy huddle as a secular skeptics club."
[My observation--think Fundamentalists in the first half of the 20th century]
So, what is the answer then? Well, read over some of my former posts from the past six months. I'm trying to forge an answer to this question, especially in light of the new philosophy on hand--postmodernism.
(Source for qote: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/2007/issue94/1.6.html)
Thursday, August 21, 2008
Those S....c....a....r...y.... Spirits
I've seen and sensed for some time the influence of the occult in our Ameruican society. This came in again in the 1960's. I said again, because it was very popular among the upper and upper-middle classes in the 1920's, which remind me alot of the 1960's. But back in both of those eras the evangelical church was able to keep it out. Not anymore. Much of what's wrong today in our churches is occult influences. Whether it is completative spirituality, or the Third Wave Charismatic "revival spirit," or the emergent medieval-Catholic-based mysticism, all of those foundations are found in the occult spirit.
Over at the Absolute Dominion blog, there is a post entitled, Deathwish. Here is the passage I want to highlight from that post,
"Like many other believers I’ve noticed the most common theme among the Emergent/Emerging, Seeker Sensitive, and Purpose Driven church growth apostates is their man-centered gospel. They continually look within themselves for the answers to life’s problems and circumstances as opposed to looking outward and upward toward God and seeking Him in His Word. Of course they’ll drizzle a little Jesus on top of their man-centered spiritual buffet - take what you want and leave the rest! - and they’ll flavor it with a dash of “church speak”, but in the end it’s the same old hell spawned anti-theology that the devil has been dusting off and trotting out in various forms in order to deceive sinful men for ages".
Now, pay attention to the next part of this post,
More recently however I’ve begun to notice the correlation between the aforementioned groups and the occult. Their self-esteem building workshops, their “hero within” fetishes, and their positive confessions can all be traced back to the most ancient origins of witchcraft and occultism.
YES! Someone finally gets it! However, this blog didn't go into the occult influence as a spirit as much as just what people are doing. But what people do comes from a spiritual influence. Frankly, I rarely find many Christians who get this. Outside the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement, Christians don't want to deal with ...ooooh....those s....c....a....r....y.....spirits. The Charismatics often do not discern them well and the Pentecostals...well...I'm not sure what they are doing these days.
So, why are people relunctant to deal with this? I think it probably has to do with the whole deliverance thing. A lot of Christians do not understand this area of doctrine at all. While I don't personally agree with the concept of the binding of them, I do believe in the breaking of their influence over Christians through prayer. I've seen my life completely change through this type of deliverance (done at a very good church, not at these amateurish and dangerous places), over the past 32 years. So, I've had time to relect on this. I know many of you will deny this is true and tell me my experience isn't valid if the Scripture doesn't show it. Then you will challenge me to give Scripture, which you absolutely should require. I am ready.
Over at the Absolute Dominion blog, there is a post entitled, Deathwish. Here is the passage I want to highlight from that post,
"Like many other believers I’ve noticed the most common theme among the Emergent/Emerging, Seeker Sensitive, and Purpose Driven church growth apostates is their man-centered gospel. They continually look within themselves for the answers to life’s problems and circumstances as opposed to looking outward and upward toward God and seeking Him in His Word. Of course they’ll drizzle a little Jesus on top of their man-centered spiritual buffet - take what you want and leave the rest! - and they’ll flavor it with a dash of “church speak”, but in the end it’s the same old hell spawned anti-theology that the devil has been dusting off and trotting out in various forms in order to deceive sinful men for ages".
Now, pay attention to the next part of this post,
More recently however I’ve begun to notice the correlation between the aforementioned groups and the occult. Their self-esteem building workshops, their “hero within” fetishes, and their positive confessions can all be traced back to the most ancient origins of witchcraft and occultism.
YES! Someone finally gets it! However, this blog didn't go into the occult influence as a spirit as much as just what people are doing. But what people do comes from a spiritual influence. Frankly, I rarely find many Christians who get this. Outside the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement, Christians don't want to deal with ...ooooh....those s....c....a....r....y.....spirits. The Charismatics often do not discern them well and the Pentecostals...well...I'm not sure what they are doing these days.
So, why are people relunctant to deal with this? I think it probably has to do with the whole deliverance thing. A lot of Christians do not understand this area of doctrine at all. While I don't personally agree with the concept of the binding of them, I do believe in the breaking of their influence over Christians through prayer. I've seen my life completely change through this type of deliverance (done at a very good church, not at these amateurish and dangerous places), over the past 32 years. So, I've had time to relect on this. I know many of you will deny this is true and tell me my experience isn't valid if the Scripture doesn't show it. Then you will challenge me to give Scripture, which you absolutely should require. I am ready.
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
My Comment on the Lakeland "Revival"
I'm kind of trying to avoid going into the Lakeland stuff, part of the larger Third Wave Charismatic movement, because I already pretty well covered this movement in 2004. I wrote then about Toronto and Brownsville and why I felt that this "revival" movement wasn't of the Holy Spirit, but a more occultic one that masquerades as the Holy Spirit. Before some jump all over me, I am a Pentecostal, not a "cessationist." Since this has flooded in recently again via Lakeland, I want to make two observations. One is from me and the other from another blogger.
Before I continue, let me bring everybody up to speed as to why I keep calling this movement the Third Wave. This is actually a term coined by the head of the International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), Dr. C. Peter Wagner. He says that the First Wave was the Pentecostal Outpouring at the beginning of the 20th century (i.e. Azusa St., et.al.). The Second Wave was the Charismatic Renewal in the mainline and Catholic churches; and the Third Wave is the present Toronto-Brownsville-and now Lakeland revival type.
For my first observation, I am very encouraged with the number of people INSIDE THE MOVEMENT that finally are standing up against it. A member if the ICA recently contacted true prophet (IMO) Andrew Strom and decried this Lakeland "revival." I also have seen this at the Charisma magazine forum (http://www.charismamag.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=3f18a12e55a146abca3066dd351cb907). The majority of people seemd to finally have awakened to the true spirit of the Third Wave stuff. Sadly, when the Charisma forum began several years ago, this wasn't the case at all. Almost everyone was so enamored with the Brownsville "river revival," they couldn't think straight. This certainly is an answer to prayer for me-to see so many former "riverites" finally able to truly discern the true from the false.
Second, there are multitudes of blogs commenting on Lakeland. It's difficult to pick only one to present here. But I finally decided to briefly quote something Dan Edelin wrote at Cerulean Sanctum. I found it refreshing that someone talked about what is needed in the future in the Charismatic movement as to leadership. In the past, I've written on a New Type of Faith Teacher needed for the Word of Faith movement. Now Dan is telling us what kind of leader must come forth in the Charismatic movement, and I think he's made some very good points. I hope you will read the entire post at his site, but for now, here is the pertinent quote about the leadership:
Look, I’m not out for blood here. But the legacy of the present charismatic leadership, the current crop of faces on Christian TV and behind the podiums at the Mega-Healing conferences, the oracles in the traveling “prophetic” carnivals, the people pushing the New Apostolic whatever down all of our throats…you rushed in where angels fear to tread, so maybe it’s time for you to exit stage left. The children’s sermon is over. Time to let the adults lead. You know, the people who graduated from Discernment 101 with at least a “D” average.
Before I continue, let me bring everybody up to speed as to why I keep calling this movement the Third Wave. This is actually a term coined by the head of the International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), Dr. C. Peter Wagner. He says that the First Wave was the Pentecostal Outpouring at the beginning of the 20th century (i.e. Azusa St., et.al.). The Second Wave was the Charismatic Renewal in the mainline and Catholic churches; and the Third Wave is the present Toronto-Brownsville-and now Lakeland revival type.
For my first observation, I am very encouraged with the number of people INSIDE THE MOVEMENT that finally are standing up against it. A member if the ICA recently contacted true prophet (IMO) Andrew Strom and decried this Lakeland "revival." I also have seen this at the Charisma magazine forum (http://www.charismamag.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=3f18a12e55a146abca3066dd351cb907). The majority of people seemd to finally have awakened to the true spirit of the Third Wave stuff. Sadly, when the Charisma forum began several years ago, this wasn't the case at all. Almost everyone was so enamored with the Brownsville "river revival," they couldn't think straight. This certainly is an answer to prayer for me-to see so many former "riverites" finally able to truly discern the true from the false.
Second, there are multitudes of blogs commenting on Lakeland. It's difficult to pick only one to present here. But I finally decided to briefly quote something Dan Edelin wrote at Cerulean Sanctum. I found it refreshing that someone talked about what is needed in the future in the Charismatic movement as to leadership. In the past, I've written on a New Type of Faith Teacher needed for the Word of Faith movement. Now Dan is telling us what kind of leader must come forth in the Charismatic movement, and I think he's made some very good points. I hope you will read the entire post at his site, but for now, here is the pertinent quote about the leadership:
Look, I’m not out for blood here. But the legacy of the present charismatic leadership, the current crop of faces on Christian TV and behind the podiums at the Mega-Healing conferences, the oracles in the traveling “prophetic” carnivals, the people pushing the New Apostolic whatever down all of our throats…you rushed in where angels fear to tread, so maybe it’s time for you to exit stage left. The children’s sermon is over. Time to let the adults lead. You know, the people who graduated from Discernment 101 with at least a “D” average.
Tuesday, August 19, 2008
Battle For the American Mind-Review 1
I'm reading a very interesting book published in 2004, entitled The Battle for the American Mind by Carl J. Richard. In the short Introduction he lays out the foundation of the book. We see in history, he says, three different streams of philosophical-religious thoughts which propel people's thoughts and actions in America (and Europe too).
First, there is theism, which is a belief in God (or god). For some reason, he seems to ignore polytheism, perhaps because it never caught a hold in America. Theism says that men are sinful and need God (or a god)to rescue them from this state.
Second, there is humanism which says man is inately good and can change things himself with enough education and advantages in life.
Third, there is skepticism, which isn't centered on God nor man. Therefore, there isn't much hope. We just kind of live the best we can.
Having been immersed in philosophical study for the past two years, I can readily see which philosophers were in each of these three categories. I think I am really going to like this book, especially because looking at the Table of Contents, I can see a lot of influences on American Christianity. So, if I see a gem as I read this book, I will report on it from time to time here.
First, there is theism, which is a belief in God (or god). For some reason, he seems to ignore polytheism, perhaps because it never caught a hold in America. Theism says that men are sinful and need God (or a god)to rescue them from this state.
Second, there is humanism which says man is inately good and can change things himself with enough education and advantages in life.
Third, there is skepticism, which isn't centered on God nor man. Therefore, there isn't much hope. We just kind of live the best we can.
Having been immersed in philosophical study for the past two years, I can readily see which philosophers were in each of these three categories. I think I am really going to like this book, especially because looking at the Table of Contents, I can see a lot of influences on American Christianity. So, if I see a gem as I read this book, I will report on it from time to time here.
Monday, August 18, 2008
More on Various "Jesus-es"
More today on the "Jesus" many evangelical churches are presenting today.
I've just read Choosing Your Faith by Mark Mittelberg. On p. 216 he writes,
"Have you noticed that everyone tries to claim Jesus, in one way or another, as being their very own?
To the Social activist, He's a cultural revolutionary; to the metaphysical New Ager, He's an enlightened spirtitual master; to the Baha'i, He's one of many great prophets; to the liberal, He's another liberal; to the extreme fundamentalist, He's an angry street preacher; to the Unitarian, He's a universalist; to the corporate executive, He's the consummate business leader; to the Communist, He's the head of a commune; to the motivational teacher, He's the ultimate positive thinker; to postmodernists, He's different things, depending on their various perspectives; and to the irreverant coworker, He's simply 'the guy upstairs.'
The sad thing is how many pastors are presenting these various "Jesus-es" of the secular society instead of the Christian Jesus. How and why do they do this? By bypassing the cross and what was done there.
I've just read Choosing Your Faith by Mark Mittelberg. On p. 216 he writes,
"Have you noticed that everyone tries to claim Jesus, in one way or another, as being their very own?
To the Social activist, He's a cultural revolutionary; to the metaphysical New Ager, He's an enlightened spirtitual master; to the Baha'i, He's one of many great prophets; to the liberal, He's another liberal; to the extreme fundamentalist, He's an angry street preacher; to the Unitarian, He's a universalist; to the corporate executive, He's the consummate business leader; to the Communist, He's the head of a commune; to the motivational teacher, He's the ultimate positive thinker; to postmodernists, He's different things, depending on their various perspectives; and to the irreverant coworker, He's simply 'the guy upstairs.'
The sad thing is how many pastors are presenting these various "Jesus-es" of the secular society instead of the Christian Jesus. How and why do they do this? By bypassing the cross and what was done there.
Friday, August 15, 2008
Which Jesus?
Now and then I will write about how the concept of Jesus, especially a "different" Jesus, has been a constant throughout history since Jesus died and was resurrected. Today, we have many different Jesuses both in and outside of the church. Many evangelicals today have the "good guy-help the poor" Jesus, but the "crucified-bore our sins Jesus" seems to be vanishing in many quarters. Here are some examples:
In many emergent churches we hear about being "Jesus Followers" (or "Christ Followers"), but the cross is somehow missing. We find out that being a Jesus Follower means to follow what he said and did for the poor. His healing miracles are either ignored or explained away as an analogy of "healing" society.
Here is another example. Recently, I found out the Bible is being translated for Hindus in India. It is called New Community Bible. This sounds nice until you find out what's in it. The parents of Jesus are portrayed as poor Indians in an Indian village. I wonder if that might be too much leeway. There is a reason to portray Mary and Joseph as Jews so one can gain the understanding of how the Jewish law and rituals and Jewish leaders played a part in the whole Jesus story. But what wll really throw many of you for a loop (it did me) is this particular Bible, put out by the Catholic Church, brings into the reference commentary, Hindu texts from the Bhagavad Gita and other references to Hindu gurus' writings. This is meant to "explain" what Jesus said. But at times there are references that seem to equalize the words of Jesus to the words of certain Hindus.
Jesus was the Son of God and putting in Hindu texts and writings, even as commentary to explain, deosn't really explain this. And this brings me to the point of what is happening in missions in the evangelical world. I am getting more and more concerned about this. The sense today is that we need to make Christianity and Jesus so compatible with the thinking and religion of the ones being evangelized that Christianity loses it's essence. This is a reaction, I believe, to the centuries of arrogant western Christians trying to force their culture and thinking systems upon the ones to whom they were evangelizing. But as usual with human beings, including Christians, we tend to go to the opposite extreme to fix the other extreme. Again, I do hope we'll find the perfect middle--that middle that Aristotle called The Golden Mean. It's the postmodern trend of Hegelian synthesis trying to mesh two opposites (the thesis and antithesis) together to make a new truth (the synthesis).
Here is another example of how many churches are marginalizing Jesus and the cross, especially in their youth groups. Remember, the youth are going to be the next generation of chruch leaders. We have already had decades of clown youth group, but sadly, instead of things getting better, I believe they are getting worse in most youth church groups. Here is a typical focus. I took it from a well-known, large, and basically good church that supposedly is dedicated to bringing folks to the Lord. Here is what they say at their website in the youth section:
"Come and take a look at what's going on in the teenage world, where students are connecting to God and each other! There is nothing more exciting than a bunch of teenagers who are having fun and you're not quite sure what will happen next! Numerous chances to hang out and have fun take place before and after (groups name) on Wednesdays, to going out to eat with a group on Sundays and everything in between! Come see just how much fun you can have with us!"
Look at another well-known large church in its area and it's youth section:
"High School Ministry provides students with a time and a place to honor God through worship. Our students understand that true worship is doing everything to the glory of God, whether that takes place on the court, in the classroom, or at their jobs.
High School Ministry provides students with the opportunity to hear preaching which is focused on their age group. Because we believe that sanctification is a direct result of the washing of the water by the Word, we are committed to faithfully and accurately preaching the Word of God. Our messages focus on what the Bible says about issues that are unique to teens, a luxury which other ministries can’t afford because of the diversity of ages within their groups. And because the people in our ministry are often wrestling with whether their “faith” is based on learned behavior or genuine belief. The gospel is presented clearly and regularly.
High School Ministry encourages our teens to exercise their spiritual gifts in ministry opportunities. For example, our students make several trips each year to minister to patients at the (name of) Medical Center. These outings give our students the opportunity to proclaim the gospel and pray as Jesus would with people who are hurting physically and spiritually.
High School Ministry offers opportunities for our students to spend time with mature spiritual leaders who can establish personal relationships with them.
High School Ministry is committed to equipping our students for godliness. We do this by teaching our students how to study the Bible for themselves.
High School Ministry provides our teens with “small-group” accountability. Groups of four or five meet bi-monthly with staff members to discuss their relationship with the Lord. These groups give students the opportunity to confess their sins, share their burdens, and pray for one another as they pursue personal holiness.
Finally, High School Ministry provides teens with fun in the context of Christian fellowship. Our ministry provides excursions to the beach, ski trips, and many other events."
Which Jesus do you want your children to know? And, which Bible to you want your children to read? And which Jesus do you think will save your children?
We can do better than this and we must for the sake of the next generations. Jesus went to the cross for a reason. It wasn't to bring justice to society through the church and government. It wasn't so youth can have "fun, fun, fun until Daddy takes their T-Bird away...." (Beach Boys song). It was to bear our sins and sicknesses upon Himself in our place (Matt. 8:17) so we can become sanctified (means to make holy) and go to heaven. In the meantime, of course we want to live out our life to help others. That is a given. But there is more to Christianity and the real Jesus than feeding the poor (and then going back to your nice suburban home at night). We must have the right foundation BEFORE we do the works.
In many emergent churches we hear about being "Jesus Followers" (or "Christ Followers"), but the cross is somehow missing. We find out that being a Jesus Follower means to follow what he said and did for the poor. His healing miracles are either ignored or explained away as an analogy of "healing" society.
Here is another example. Recently, I found out the Bible is being translated for Hindus in India. It is called New Community Bible. This sounds nice until you find out what's in it. The parents of Jesus are portrayed as poor Indians in an Indian village. I wonder if that might be too much leeway. There is a reason to portray Mary and Joseph as Jews so one can gain the understanding of how the Jewish law and rituals and Jewish leaders played a part in the whole Jesus story. But what wll really throw many of you for a loop (it did me) is this particular Bible, put out by the Catholic Church, brings into the reference commentary, Hindu texts from the Bhagavad Gita and other references to Hindu gurus' writings. This is meant to "explain" what Jesus said. But at times there are references that seem to equalize the words of Jesus to the words of certain Hindus.
Jesus was the Son of God and putting in Hindu texts and writings, even as commentary to explain, deosn't really explain this. And this brings me to the point of what is happening in missions in the evangelical world. I am getting more and more concerned about this. The sense today is that we need to make Christianity and Jesus so compatible with the thinking and religion of the ones being evangelized that Christianity loses it's essence. This is a reaction, I believe, to the centuries of arrogant western Christians trying to force their culture and thinking systems upon the ones to whom they were evangelizing. But as usual with human beings, including Christians, we tend to go to the opposite extreme to fix the other extreme. Again, I do hope we'll find the perfect middle--that middle that Aristotle called The Golden Mean. It's the postmodern trend of Hegelian synthesis trying to mesh two opposites (the thesis and antithesis) together to make a new truth (the synthesis).
Here is another example of how many churches are marginalizing Jesus and the cross, especially in their youth groups. Remember, the youth are going to be the next generation of chruch leaders. We have already had decades of clown youth group, but sadly, instead of things getting better, I believe they are getting worse in most youth church groups. Here is a typical focus. I took it from a well-known, large, and basically good church that supposedly is dedicated to bringing folks to the Lord. Here is what they say at their website in the youth section:
"Come and take a look at what's going on in the teenage world, where students are connecting to God and each other! There is nothing more exciting than a bunch of teenagers who are having fun and you're not quite sure what will happen next! Numerous chances to hang out and have fun take place before and after (groups name) on Wednesdays, to going out to eat with a group on Sundays and everything in between! Come see just how much fun you can have with us!"
Look at another well-known large church in its area and it's youth section:
"High School Ministry provides students with a time and a place to honor God through worship. Our students understand that true worship is doing everything to the glory of God, whether that takes place on the court, in the classroom, or at their jobs.
High School Ministry provides students with the opportunity to hear preaching which is focused on their age group. Because we believe that sanctification is a direct result of the washing of the water by the Word, we are committed to faithfully and accurately preaching the Word of God. Our messages focus on what the Bible says about issues that are unique to teens, a luxury which other ministries can’t afford because of the diversity of ages within their groups. And because the people in our ministry are often wrestling with whether their “faith” is based on learned behavior or genuine belief. The gospel is presented clearly and regularly.
High School Ministry encourages our teens to exercise their spiritual gifts in ministry opportunities. For example, our students make several trips each year to minister to patients at the (name of) Medical Center. These outings give our students the opportunity to proclaim the gospel and pray as Jesus would with people who are hurting physically and spiritually.
High School Ministry offers opportunities for our students to spend time with mature spiritual leaders who can establish personal relationships with them.
High School Ministry is committed to equipping our students for godliness. We do this by teaching our students how to study the Bible for themselves.
High School Ministry provides our teens with “small-group” accountability. Groups of four or five meet bi-monthly with staff members to discuss their relationship with the Lord. These groups give students the opportunity to confess their sins, share their burdens, and pray for one another as they pursue personal holiness.
Finally, High School Ministry provides teens with fun in the context of Christian fellowship. Our ministry provides excursions to the beach, ski trips, and many other events."
Which Jesus do you want your children to know? And, which Bible to you want your children to read? And which Jesus do you think will save your children?
We can do better than this and we must for the sake of the next generations. Jesus went to the cross for a reason. It wasn't to bring justice to society through the church and government. It wasn't so youth can have "fun, fun, fun until Daddy takes their T-Bird away...." (Beach Boys song). It was to bear our sins and sicknesses upon Himself in our place (Matt. 8:17) so we can become sanctified (means to make holy) and go to heaven. In the meantime, of course we want to live out our life to help others. That is a given. But there is more to Christianity and the real Jesus than feeding the poor (and then going back to your nice suburban home at night). We must have the right foundation BEFORE we do the works.
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
Christian Carnival 237
This week's Christian Carnival is up now at Rodney Olsen's blog, Rodney Olsen.net.
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Help!
I rarely hit a blank wall in my blog writing but in the last few days I have. What do you think I should write about?
Monday, August 11, 2008
Quote of the Week
This is just priceless and is a great refutation of the "we don't care who's 'in or out'" mantra of the emergent villagers.
Jesus did not send out just anyone who was willing to tag along to help "cure societal problems.
Source: http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1167&more=1&c=1
Jesus did not send out just anyone who was willing to tag along to help "cure societal problems.
Source: http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1167&more=1&c=1
Friday, August 08, 2008
An Amazing Correlation
I just finished reading The Evangelical Left by Millard J. Erickson. He has been professor of theology at several seminaries including Baylor, Bethel and Western. The amazing thing about this book is its publication date -- 1997. Now remember, we hadn't even heard of the emergent movement then. It only started the year before. So then, exactly who is Professor Erickson writing about? Basically, he is discussing in the book evangelical theologians who were tending away from conservative evangelicalism and going a tad towards a more liberal theology, and IMO, some going very much toward liberal Protestantism. Three of those he talks about are the usual "suspects:"
Clark Pinnock
John Sanders
Stanley Grenz
I want to discuss the last chapter of his book, Ch. 6, entitled, Where do we go from here? He gives seven points that these men are tending to believe. And wait until you see six of them. It's like deju vu. I left out one because it's very theological and doesn't have that much to do with my discussion today. Please note how similar these are to what the emergent movement believes and practices today. After each point, I will translate about the similarity between these theologians and the present emergent movement. So then, here are the six points with my comments.
1. There is a sense of engagement with the spirit of the times.
Translation: There is a love of the world among them.
2. There is an openness to dialogue with those of a more liberal orientation, which exceeds the desire for interaction with those from a more conservative perspective.
Translation: They'll talk to anybody except evangelicals.
3. Many of these theologians are reacting against the past, which was in most cases of a more conservative orientation.
Translation: Most (but not all) of the emergent pastors I've studied came out of legalistic churches. I've written here (before I read this book) that I felt the emergent theological view was a reaction to this - but at the extreme, instead of wisely and maturely coming to the middle.
4. There is something of a shift from a theocentric to a more anthropocentric orientation. It involves, for example, the idea that humanity must be served, and that perceived needs, and temporal welfare should be met by God. There is also, an epistemological anthropocentrism, so that humans are the judges of what is true and good. There is considerably more confidence in humans' ability to know and do the good than was true in an earlier evangelicalism.
Translation: We should help the poor. That is basically why Christ came. Forget the bearing of sins theory of why Christ came. It was a social justice atonement.
5. There is a sense of continuity with the truly orthodox tradition in Christian theology. The most recent evangelicalism, that of the earlier twentieth century, is believed to have distorted the authentic evangelical tradition by its historical and cultural conditioning.
Translation: This is actually two movements within emergent. First, the Ancient-Future people who tell us we need to bo through ALL of Christian hostory and hear wht various "church fathers" have to say. However, the truth is, they dishonestly only go back to about 350 CE and suddenly stop in 1517. I'll let you figure out what happened that year. To be fair, the Young Calvinists, the emergents opposites - start their history in the 2 1/2 centuries (CE), and then suddenly fly to 1517.
The second group of people insist that the typical evangelical church is too influenced by Cartesianism (i.e. Enlightenment thinking). Actually they have a point but IMO they carry it way too far.
6. These are younger men, for whom the ravages of liberalism on the Christian faith are simply something heard and read about, not experienced firsthand. From their perspective, "establishment evangelicalism" seems overly concerned with preserving truth, by fighting again the battles of an earlier generation.
Translation: I've written about this here too. I've said that most of these young pastors don't have a clue to the ravages that liberal Protestantism has wrought. I do because I was brought up in it. Most of them were not raised in it. While they can tell you what the Catholic monks were doing in the medieval church down to all of their prayers, they cannot tell you what the liberal Protestants did during the 20th century with any accuracy. They accuse evangelicals of getting stuck in the Reformation and that is somewhat true. But what about them? Me thinks they have also gotten stuck in a historical time warp.
Clark Pinnock
John Sanders
Stanley Grenz
I want to discuss the last chapter of his book, Ch. 6, entitled, Where do we go from here? He gives seven points that these men are tending to believe. And wait until you see six of them. It's like deju vu. I left out one because it's very theological and doesn't have that much to do with my discussion today. Please note how similar these are to what the emergent movement believes and practices today. After each point, I will translate about the similarity between these theologians and the present emergent movement. So then, here are the six points with my comments.
1. There is a sense of engagement with the spirit of the times.
Translation: There is a love of the world among them.
2. There is an openness to dialogue with those of a more liberal orientation, which exceeds the desire for interaction with those from a more conservative perspective.
Translation: They'll talk to anybody except evangelicals.
3. Many of these theologians are reacting against the past, which was in most cases of a more conservative orientation.
Translation: Most (but not all) of the emergent pastors I've studied came out of legalistic churches. I've written here (before I read this book) that I felt the emergent theological view was a reaction to this - but at the extreme, instead of wisely and maturely coming to the middle.
4. There is something of a shift from a theocentric to a more anthropocentric orientation. It involves, for example, the idea that humanity must be served, and that perceived needs, and temporal welfare should be met by God. There is also, an epistemological anthropocentrism, so that humans are the judges of what is true and good. There is considerably more confidence in humans' ability to know and do the good than was true in an earlier evangelicalism.
Translation: We should help the poor. That is basically why Christ came. Forget the bearing of sins theory of why Christ came. It was a social justice atonement.
5. There is a sense of continuity with the truly orthodox tradition in Christian theology. The most recent evangelicalism, that of the earlier twentieth century, is believed to have distorted the authentic evangelical tradition by its historical and cultural conditioning.
Translation: This is actually two movements within emergent. First, the Ancient-Future people who tell us we need to bo through ALL of Christian hostory and hear wht various "church fathers" have to say. However, the truth is, they dishonestly only go back to about 350 CE and suddenly stop in 1517. I'll let you figure out what happened that year. To be fair, the Young Calvinists, the emergents opposites - start their history in the 2 1/2 centuries (CE), and then suddenly fly to 1517.
The second group of people insist that the typical evangelical church is too influenced by Cartesianism (i.e. Enlightenment thinking). Actually they have a point but IMO they carry it way too far.
6. These are younger men, for whom the ravages of liberalism on the Christian faith are simply something heard and read about, not experienced firsthand. From their perspective, "establishment evangelicalism" seems overly concerned with preserving truth, by fighting again the battles of an earlier generation.
Translation: I've written about this here too. I've said that most of these young pastors don't have a clue to the ravages that liberal Protestantism has wrought. I do because I was brought up in it. Most of them were not raised in it. While they can tell you what the Catholic monks were doing in the medieval church down to all of their prayers, they cannot tell you what the liberal Protestants did during the 20th century with any accuracy. They accuse evangelicals of getting stuck in the Reformation and that is somewhat true. But what about them? Me thinks they have also gotten stuck in a historical time warp.
The New Mystics?--YES!
This is so good and so long awaited. I put the middle part entitled "The New Mystics" in bold because to me that is the most important part of this email from Andrew Strom (a more NON-Third Wave Charismatic prophet. He teaches repentence).
TIME to MOVE ON?
-Andrew Strom.
IN THIS EMAIL: An Apology - Who Exactly Are the "New Mystics"? -
Praise for Bloggers - Special Announcement + more...
Let me start by saying that there is no-one who would enjoy "moving
on" from the topic of Lakeland more than me. When I first heard
of what was going on there, my immediate reaction was "OH NO!"
because I knew we were going to have to use this List to expose
certain things - a task I dreaded at the time. But overall I think it
has been a good thing. I have received huge numbers of emails
from all over the world from people who were caught up in that kind
of deception - who are now breaking free from it - Glory to God!
Also, it is important to realize that even though Lakeland is
closing down on Aug 23rd - and God TV will stop broadcasting it -
Todd Bentley will still be travelling to other cities and nations
holding what he calls a "One Night Revival Impartation with Todd
Bentley". So it is not completely over - but yes - I am very keen to
"move on" from Lakeland and get back to the things we normally
emphasize - "Personal Revival" and the 'True Gospel' and massive
Reformation and Change in the church, etc.
The "OPEN LETTER"
And now onto the topic of my 'Open Letter' to Rick Joyner and
Peter Wagner earlier this week. I received literally hundreds of
supportive emails over it, but also a few where they obviously
thought I was being sarcastic in my use of the word "sir", etc.
Please realize - there was no sarcasm intended at all. I used the
word 'sir' to try and inject some "respectfulness" into quite a hard-
hitting letter. Please go and read it again, taking the sarcasm out,
and hopefully you will get a different impression of what I was trying
to convey. I certainly apologise for any misunderstanding, my friends.
Others felt that I was "exceeding my bounds" in writing such a
letter to men of stature like that. After all, David did not throw rocks
at King Saul. I can totally see this point. And so, if I exceeded my
bounds in any way I am truly sorry. I apologise unreservedly for
doing so. It may be that in my zeal for protecting the sheep and
rooting out deception I went "too far" with that letter. God forgive me.
ADMIRATION for BLOGGERS
Some say that Lakeland would have fallen apart by itself without
any need for all the emails or blogs, etc. As someone with an
inside view of events, I have to say that this is not true at all. The
people posting information via blogs, emails, Youtube videos, etc,
have been utterly essential to what has happened. When Charisma
started publishing about the Revival, I know for a fact that when
they found out certain information through the Internet it changed
their stance from "total support" to 'questioning'. I'm sure that ABC
Nightline would say the same. And I know for a fact that ICA
apostle Robert Ricciardelli's opposition to Lakeland would not have
become widely known at all if it weren't for blogs or email Lists like
this one. All of these factors have been utterly crucial. I think some
blogs may get a little bit harsh or "personal" at times, but overall
I want to say- Kudos to the bloggers! You've made a real difference.
You have protected multitudes of sheep around the world from
being further deceived and destroyed.
When you think about it, isn't it amazing that this is the first 'revival'
in history that has played out almost entirely on the Internet and
the "new media"? -A sign of things to come, perhaps?
WHO ARE the "NEW MYSTICS"?
Since I am hoping this may be our last post about Lakeland for
awhile, I need to put forth a very specific warning about certain
ministries while I have the chance. Todd Bentley has long been
numbered among the 'New Mystics' in the Prophetic movement -
but there are others that I need to warn about also. These are
literally the most dangerous ministries (operating in a strange
"power") that I have ever come across in the Christian church.
That is the only reason why I feel I must "name names" in this
email - and I do so with great sadness.
The first of them is Jill Austin - from 'Master Potter' ministries.
I have seen her live in person, and sadly I regard her as one of the
most dangerous of all. A minister from England described one of
her meetings as follows: "The weirdest three hours I have ever had
to endure... she spoke of the times that she meets with the Angel
Gabriel and other spiritual beings, next we moved on to portals
between this world and the next and then finally to how she was
going to open up a portal to Heaven in the room that we were all in.
Now things started to happen, really crazy things and strange
noises... As [she] moved around the room ministering to individual
people they were crashing to the ground, bouncing up and down,
running around as if on fire and making all sorts of sounds... My
Vineyard friend was the first to crash to the floor. Since that day
his church has taken on a different guise, it is not the same
church any more."
In a very similar vein is Patricia King - who operates in the same
area of "portals", jewels, 'angels', drunken jerking, etc. There is
real power in a lot of this - and I urge people to stay well clear.
John Crowder is another one. With his 'Drunken Glory' tours and
his "toking the ghost" and every other deceived thing - you cannot
even imagine how "off-beam" this guy is. Words sadly fail me.
And then there are the "fellow travellers" - men like Ben Dunn, Dave
Vaughan, Justin Abraham, Joshua Mills and many others who have
imbibed of the same weird spirit out of Toronto and the Prophetic
movement. It is just awful what is going on out there. So sad.
It is tragic to have to put out warnings like this, but my hope and
prayer is that it will prevent great harm from coming to Christ's
precious sheep. I hope you can hear my heart in this, my friends.
God bless you all!
Andrew Strom.
TIME to MOVE ON?
-Andrew Strom.
IN THIS EMAIL: An Apology - Who Exactly Are the "New Mystics"? -
Praise for Bloggers - Special Announcement + more...
Let me start by saying that there is no-one who would enjoy "moving
on" from the topic of Lakeland more than me. When I first heard
of what was going on there, my immediate reaction was "OH NO!"
because I knew we were going to have to use this List to expose
certain things - a task I dreaded at the time. But overall I think it
has been a good thing. I have received huge numbers of emails
from all over the world from people who were caught up in that kind
of deception - who are now breaking free from it - Glory to God!
Also, it is important to realize that even though Lakeland is
closing down on Aug 23rd - and God TV will stop broadcasting it -
Todd Bentley will still be travelling to other cities and nations
holding what he calls a "One Night Revival Impartation with Todd
Bentley". So it is not completely over - but yes - I am very keen to
"move on" from Lakeland and get back to the things we normally
emphasize - "Personal Revival" and the 'True Gospel' and massive
Reformation and Change in the church, etc.
The "OPEN LETTER"
And now onto the topic of my 'Open Letter' to Rick Joyner and
Peter Wagner earlier this week. I received literally hundreds of
supportive emails over it, but also a few where they obviously
thought I was being sarcastic in my use of the word "sir", etc.
Please realize - there was no sarcasm intended at all. I used the
word 'sir' to try and inject some "respectfulness" into quite a hard-
hitting letter. Please go and read it again, taking the sarcasm out,
and hopefully you will get a different impression of what I was trying
to convey. I certainly apologise for any misunderstanding, my friends.
Others felt that I was "exceeding my bounds" in writing such a
letter to men of stature like that. After all, David did not throw rocks
at King Saul. I can totally see this point. And so, if I exceeded my
bounds in any way I am truly sorry. I apologise unreservedly for
doing so. It may be that in my zeal for protecting the sheep and
rooting out deception I went "too far" with that letter. God forgive me.
ADMIRATION for BLOGGERS
Some say that Lakeland would have fallen apart by itself without
any need for all the emails or blogs, etc. As someone with an
inside view of events, I have to say that this is not true at all. The
people posting information via blogs, emails, Youtube videos, etc,
have been utterly essential to what has happened. When Charisma
started publishing about the Revival, I know for a fact that when
they found out certain information through the Internet it changed
their stance from "total support" to 'questioning'. I'm sure that ABC
Nightline would say the same. And I know for a fact that ICA
apostle Robert Ricciardelli's opposition to Lakeland would not have
become widely known at all if it weren't for blogs or email Lists like
this one. All of these factors have been utterly crucial. I think some
blogs may get a little bit harsh or "personal" at times, but overall
I want to say- Kudos to the bloggers! You've made a real difference.
You have protected multitudes of sheep around the world from
being further deceived and destroyed.
When you think about it, isn't it amazing that this is the first 'revival'
in history that has played out almost entirely on the Internet and
the "new media"? -A sign of things to come, perhaps?
WHO ARE the "NEW MYSTICS"?
Since I am hoping this may be our last post about Lakeland for
awhile, I need to put forth a very specific warning about certain
ministries while I have the chance. Todd Bentley has long been
numbered among the 'New Mystics' in the Prophetic movement -
but there are others that I need to warn about also. These are
literally the most dangerous ministries (operating in a strange
"power") that I have ever come across in the Christian church.
That is the only reason why I feel I must "name names" in this
email - and I do so with great sadness.
The first of them is Jill Austin - from 'Master Potter' ministries.
I have seen her live in person, and sadly I regard her as one of the
most dangerous of all. A minister from England described one of
her meetings as follows: "The weirdest three hours I have ever had
to endure... she spoke of the times that she meets with the Angel
Gabriel and other spiritual beings, next we moved on to portals
between this world and the next and then finally to how she was
going to open up a portal to Heaven in the room that we were all in.
Now things started to happen, really crazy things and strange
noises... As [she] moved around the room ministering to individual
people they were crashing to the ground, bouncing up and down,
running around as if on fire and making all sorts of sounds... My
Vineyard friend was the first to crash to the floor. Since that day
his church has taken on a different guise, it is not the same
church any more."
In a very similar vein is Patricia King - who operates in the same
area of "portals", jewels, 'angels', drunken jerking, etc. There is
real power in a lot of this - and I urge people to stay well clear.
John Crowder is another one. With his 'Drunken Glory' tours and
his "toking the ghost" and every other deceived thing - you cannot
even imagine how "off-beam" this guy is. Words sadly fail me.
And then there are the "fellow travellers" - men like Ben Dunn, Dave
Vaughan, Justin Abraham, Joshua Mills and many others who have
imbibed of the same weird spirit out of Toronto and the Prophetic
movement. It is just awful what is going on out there. So sad.
It is tragic to have to put out warnings like this, but my hope and
prayer is that it will prevent great harm from coming to Christ's
precious sheep. I hope you can hear my heart in this, my friends.
God bless you all!
Andrew Strom.
Thursday, August 07, 2008
The Impact of These Kind of Christians
Two great quotes:
"Are we the kind of church of which the world says":
We don't share a lot of their beliefs, but I shudder to think of this city without them. They are such an important part of the community. They give so much! If they left we'd have to raise taxes because others won't give of themselves like those people do
"Though they accuse you.....they see your good deeds and glorify God."
From The Supremecy of Christ in a Postmodern World (book), p. 122 (Tim Keller)
Many Chinese people think Christians are trustworthy. If they want to hire an employee or they want to have a babysitter at home, they prefer to invite a Christian. Christians have good reputations. During many disasters in China, churches were involved in relief work to poor areas, and even the government was encouraged. Churches are having an influence by being examples of moral behavior.” —Benjamin, a pastor of a network of house churches in China, comments on the ways in which the church is influencing people in China.
From Ministry Today magazine, May 13, 2008
"Are we the kind of church of which the world says":
We don't share a lot of their beliefs, but I shudder to think of this city without them. They are such an important part of the community. They give so much! If they left we'd have to raise taxes because others won't give of themselves like those people do
"Though they accuse you.....they see your good deeds and glorify God."
From The Supremecy of Christ in a Postmodern World (book), p. 122 (Tim Keller)
Many Chinese people think Christians are trustworthy. If they want to hire an employee or they want to have a babysitter at home, they prefer to invite a Christian. Christians have good reputations. During many disasters in China, churches were involved in relief work to poor areas, and even the government was encouraged. Churches are having an influence by being examples of moral behavior.” —Benjamin, a pastor of a network of house churches in China, comments on the ways in which the church is influencing people in China.
From Ministry Today magazine, May 13, 2008
Wednesday, August 06, 2008
The Four Circles: A Critique
Have you heard of the Four Circles? It's similar to Campus Crusade's Four Laws but in a postmodern way. They were created by Intervarsity staff member James Choung. As I've studied postmodern philosophy and the effect it's had on our youth, as well as reading upteen emergent books, I've come to realize that the Four Laws need to be changed into postmodern-speak-thought. However, I also know that we cannot change the content-message. Sadly, when I looked closely at the Four Circles more closely, I saw that there were subtle message changes a la emergent-type subtlety.
Here are the original Four Laws of Campus Crusade (Recently they have been slightly modifed. Now they are the four Principles instead of Laws):
Principle 1-God loves you and offers a wonderful plan for your life
Principle2-All of us sin and our sin has separated us from God.
Principle 3-Jesus Christ is God's only provision for our sin. Through Him we can know and experience God's love and plan for our life.
Principle 4-We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know and experience God's love and plan for our lives.
Now, here are the Four Circles:
Circle 1-We are designed for God
Circle 2-We are damaged by evil
Circle 3-We are Restored for better
Circle 4-We are sent together to heal
I so wanted someone to rewrite the Four Laws to retain their content but in a postmdoern way--like perhaps more like a narrative with fine art instead of the stick like diagrams. But IMO the Four Circles ain't it.
Circle 1 is OK as it talks about our eternal purpose with God.
But in Circles 2-4 there are synonyms which frankly, don't exactly convey what the Four Laws so beautifully and Biblically did convey.
Circle 2-The word "damaged" isn't exactly a good choice because IMO it doesn't convey the seriousness of the sinful nature as completely fallen.
Circle 3-We are restored for better? How? Something seems to be missing here. Oh I know what is missing--JESUS CHIRST! No, I'm not swearing. I'm telling you what's missing. Like in much of postmodern Christian writing today, sadly, the cross and wthe work of Christ there is nowhere in sight.
Circle 4-Sent to "heal?" How? Again, like much of Christian postmodern writing today, conversion and evangelism are dirty words.
I do like one thing about the Four Circles and that is they are circles. The postmoderns are more flowing and unending in process and a circle is a good shape to use rather than the rather stick-like angular shapes of the Four Laws.
But overall, I am greatly disappointed in the Four Circles as I had hoped they would be more specific about God's plan THROUGH Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. How people receive Christ without knowing this, frankly, is beyond me.
Here are the original Four Laws of Campus Crusade (Recently they have been slightly modifed. Now they are the four Principles instead of Laws):
Principle 1-God loves you and offers a wonderful plan for your life
Principle2-All of us sin and our sin has separated us from God.
Principle 3-Jesus Christ is God's only provision for our sin. Through Him we can know and experience God's love and plan for our life.
Principle 4-We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know and experience God's love and plan for our lives.
Now, here are the Four Circles:
Circle 1-We are designed for God
Circle 2-We are damaged by evil
Circle 3-We are Restored for better
Circle 4-We are sent together to heal
I so wanted someone to rewrite the Four Laws to retain their content but in a postmdoern way--like perhaps more like a narrative with fine art instead of the stick like diagrams. But IMO the Four Circles ain't it.
Circle 1 is OK as it talks about our eternal purpose with God.
But in Circles 2-4 there are synonyms which frankly, don't exactly convey what the Four Laws so beautifully and Biblically did convey.
Circle 2-The word "damaged" isn't exactly a good choice because IMO it doesn't convey the seriousness of the sinful nature as completely fallen.
Circle 3-We are restored for better? How? Something seems to be missing here. Oh I know what is missing--JESUS CHIRST! No, I'm not swearing. I'm telling you what's missing. Like in much of postmodern Christian writing today, sadly, the cross and wthe work of Christ there is nowhere in sight.
Circle 4-Sent to "heal?" How? Again, like much of Christian postmodern writing today, conversion and evangelism are dirty words.
I do like one thing about the Four Circles and that is they are circles. The postmoderns are more flowing and unending in process and a circle is a good shape to use rather than the rather stick-like angular shapes of the Four Laws.
But overall, I am greatly disappointed in the Four Circles as I had hoped they would be more specific about God's plan THROUGH Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. How people receive Christ without knowing this, frankly, is beyond me.
Tuesday, August 05, 2008
The "D" Word
I was reading Mike Ratliff's blog today and there was a part of it that really struck me.
When confronted with the truth, heretics and their apologists almost never willingly admit that they do not affirm orthodox Christianity. However, the church prior to the mid-19th Century stood against heretics and their teachings using Church discipline to rid the Body of Christ of them and their heresies. However, things changed about 150 years ago when heretics became more and more successful in remaining in their churches. They were not disciplined as before. Those who became lax in not following through with church discipline sowed a crop that we are reaping today with actual unbelievers filling the positions of leaders in some Protestant denominations. The genuine believers in these churches have fled lest they be devoured by the wolves.
And that is the problem isn't it? The churches refuse to discipline or even point out heresies. As I've said several times here, the evangelical church is in the worse shape that I've seen in my 45 years of being a Christian. My August 2 post reflected that there is lack of discipline in the home. I said this was being translated into our church youth groups. And now, we see how it is translated into the church as a whole.
Discipline doesn't necessarily mean "whack! It also includes kind correction and guidance. One thing I lament is the addiction to be the child's buddy. This has been also translated to the church at large. We don't wish to offend anyone. We want to allow for "out of the box thinking." I'm all for out of-the-box-thinking BUT not out-of-the-box doctrine.
When confronted with the truth, heretics and their apologists almost never willingly admit that they do not affirm orthodox Christianity. However, the church prior to the mid-19th Century stood against heretics and their teachings using Church discipline to rid the Body of Christ of them and their heresies. However, things changed about 150 years ago when heretics became more and more successful in remaining in their churches. They were not disciplined as before. Those who became lax in not following through with church discipline sowed a crop that we are reaping today with actual unbelievers filling the positions of leaders in some Protestant denominations. The genuine believers in these churches have fled lest they be devoured by the wolves.
And that is the problem isn't it? The churches refuse to discipline or even point out heresies. As I've said several times here, the evangelical church is in the worse shape that I've seen in my 45 years of being a Christian. My August 2 post reflected that there is lack of discipline in the home. I said this was being translated into our church youth groups. And now, we see how it is translated into the church as a whole.
Discipline doesn't necessarily mean "whack! It also includes kind correction and guidance. One thing I lament is the addiction to be the child's buddy. This has been also translated to the church at large. We don't wish to offend anyone. We want to allow for "out of the box thinking." I'm all for out of-the-box-thinking BUT not out-of-the-box doctrine.
Monday, August 04, 2008
Strom Speaks Out to Wagner, Joyner + the AG Response
Bob of the Onward, Forward, Toward blog has a very good post about the Andrew Strom open letter to Rick Joyner and Dr. Peter Wagner. Please go to the blog site just to read that letter. It is great! Finally! A basically true-much-of-the-time prophet speaks. I've been waiting years for a prophet to challenge the Wagner Third Wave Charismatic apostolic/prophetic group. I want to point out two points that Bob makes that I think is really excellent and should be seriously thought about.
He writes,
Will they directly answer Andrew? Probably not because they see Andrew as either the ‘rebellious’ one concerning this article or they see him in the mentality of "How dare you question us?, you’re a peon in our eyes."
Yes, this is exactly their attitude toward "the rest of us." Their arrogance is absolutely astonishing to me after studying this group for 13 years now. Their "anointed" ones can do no wrong, but the rest of us don't have the "anointing" because we haven't been to the Third Heaven, seen angels, or received the "impartation." And remember, I am saying this out of a Pentecostal orientation.
The other gem Bob wrote was this,
But I hold the Assemblies of God responsible for this fiasco also. It seems that the Assemblies of God has decided that not only did it want the cake of the Florida Outpouring and eat of it’s monetary and numbers ‘blessings’ (go look at their video where they made a ’stand’ while refusing to take a stand), but want to once again play the role of ‘protecting the flock’ like they tried to do by defrocking Bakker and Swaggart and pulled their credentials while all along knowing what was going on behind the scenes. Just like they did in the 1980’s when they put up with the sin because the numbers and money was increasing until exposed by the national “sheckuler-nuuus-medierrrr” and forced to do something to save face. Where they publically acted like the hero in publically defrocking Swaggart and Bakker, they may in my personal opinion decided to be the ‘hero’ behind the scenes when the the national “sheckuler-nuuus-medierrrr” in the form of Geraldo and Nightline exposed Bentley.
To explain, a licensed Assembly of God pastor was the one who hosted Todd Bently at his church. As usual, the AG seems to be very silent on the Lakeland "revival" although there are rumors swirling around that the General Superintendent of the AG (the head guy in the AG) sent a letter to Strader or Bently. Or he didn't send a letter. We may never know. The AG should have come out publicly and said this is blasphemous and it should be shut down now. But they didn't say that to my knowledge. And as Bob pointed out, they didn't say anything before the Bakker-Swaggert mess occurred either, although there is plenty of proof in hindsight that AG leaders knew exactly what was going on. I do know this from being on an email discussion list a few years ago with many AG pastors. They are fed up to the kazoo with this type of leadership in their denomination. First they were dragged through the Bakker-Swaggert fiasco, then the Brownsville fiasco, and now this. I believe the AG congregants deserve better.
*If I am incorrect, and anyone knows of a PUBLIC statement made by the AG LEADERSHIP decrying the Lakeland "revival," do let me know and I will retract the last half of this post.
He writes,
Will they directly answer Andrew? Probably not because they see Andrew as either the ‘rebellious’ one concerning this article or they see him in the mentality of "How dare you question us?, you’re a peon in our eyes."
Yes, this is exactly their attitude toward "the rest of us." Their arrogance is absolutely astonishing to me after studying this group for 13 years now. Their "anointed" ones can do no wrong, but the rest of us don't have the "anointing" because we haven't been to the Third Heaven, seen angels, or received the "impartation." And remember, I am saying this out of a Pentecostal orientation.
The other gem Bob wrote was this,
But I hold the Assemblies of God responsible for this fiasco also. It seems that the Assemblies of God has decided that not only did it want the cake of the Florida Outpouring and eat of it’s monetary and numbers ‘blessings’ (go look at their video where they made a ’stand’ while refusing to take a stand), but want to once again play the role of ‘protecting the flock’ like they tried to do by defrocking Bakker and Swaggart and pulled their credentials while all along knowing what was going on behind the scenes. Just like they did in the 1980’s when they put up with the sin because the numbers and money was increasing until exposed by the national “sheckuler-nuuus-medierrrr” and forced to do something to save face. Where they publically acted like the hero in publically defrocking Swaggart and Bakker, they may in my personal opinion decided to be the ‘hero’ behind the scenes when the the national “sheckuler-nuuus-medierrrr” in the form of Geraldo and Nightline exposed Bentley.
To explain, a licensed Assembly of God pastor was the one who hosted Todd Bently at his church. As usual, the AG seems to be very silent on the Lakeland "revival" although there are rumors swirling around that the General Superintendent of the AG (the head guy in the AG) sent a letter to Strader or Bently. Or he didn't send a letter. We may never know. The AG should have come out publicly and said this is blasphemous and it should be shut down now. But they didn't say that to my knowledge. And as Bob pointed out, they didn't say anything before the Bakker-Swaggert mess occurred either, although there is plenty of proof in hindsight that AG leaders knew exactly what was going on. I do know this from being on an email discussion list a few years ago with many AG pastors. They are fed up to the kazoo with this type of leadership in their denomination. First they were dragged through the Bakker-Swaggert fiasco, then the Brownsville fiasco, and now this. I believe the AG congregants deserve better.
*If I am incorrect, and anyone knows of a PUBLIC statement made by the AG LEADERSHIP decrying the Lakeland "revival," do let me know and I will retract the last half of this post.
Saturday, August 02, 2008
Pampered Children--The Christian Version
A few days ago I read an interesting Op/Ed piece by Judith Warner in the New York Times. She was talking how we overprotect our children. As an example she told about these expensive camps for priveleged children and how parents call about every hour to find out if their child is doing OK. In the middle of her opinion piece Warner writes,
In our society, you don’t have to be wealthy to suffer from affluenza. Its symptoms — “debt, overwork, waste, and harm to the environment, leading to psychological disorders, alienation, and distress,” in adults;
And then she describes the children, and I really want you to take note of what she says,
lack of motivation … apathy, laziness, or failure to commit to and achieve goals … overindulgence and attitudes of entitlement” in children, according to the New York University Child Study Center, are pervasive — and no one is immune.
She then summarizes her thesis with this quote from Harvard psychologist Dan Kindlon in his book, “Too Much of a Good Thing: Raising Children of Character in an Indulgent Age,"
Indulged children are often less able to cope with stress,” writes ” “because their parents have created an atmosphere where their whims are indulged, where they were always assured … that they’re entitled and that life should be a bed of roses.
Perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised about this development as our present day society is the ME generation. But what really distresses me is what I've seen in our churches for the past 30 years, which is similar. We've allowed pampered children and teens from Christian families to "blackmail" us. Their mantra is, "We won't go to church if we don't like it." And, because so many of our Christian parents want to be "buddys," and not displease their children, churches in turn are pressured to please the children (and teens).
Perhaps, has this 30-year trend been the main factor in producing the present Seeker-Sensitive and Emergent (Village) churches that basically cater to their congegants?
In our society, you don’t have to be wealthy to suffer from affluenza. Its symptoms — “debt, overwork, waste, and harm to the environment, leading to psychological disorders, alienation, and distress,” in adults;
And then she describes the children, and I really want you to take note of what she says,
lack of motivation … apathy, laziness, or failure to commit to and achieve goals … overindulgence and attitudes of entitlement” in children, according to the New York University Child Study Center, are pervasive — and no one is immune.
She then summarizes her thesis with this quote from Harvard psychologist Dan Kindlon in his book, “Too Much of a Good Thing: Raising Children of Character in an Indulgent Age,"
Indulged children are often less able to cope with stress,” writes ” “because their parents have created an atmosphere where their whims are indulged, where they were always assured … that they’re entitled and that life should be a bed of roses.
Perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised about this development as our present day society is the ME generation. But what really distresses me is what I've seen in our churches for the past 30 years, which is similar. We've allowed pampered children and teens from Christian families to "blackmail" us. Their mantra is, "We won't go to church if we don't like it." And, because so many of our Christian parents want to be "buddys," and not displease their children, churches in turn are pressured to please the children (and teens).
Perhaps, has this 30-year trend been the main factor in producing the present Seeker-Sensitive and Emergent (Village) churches that basically cater to their congegants?
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